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Crossposting

I'm crossposting this from pepsinger

"Okay, so the Clark thread titles are being voted over at TWoP. I'd really like to see Clark receive a posititve thread title, "I Stand for Truth, Justice, and... Other Stuff" has 11 votes while "Like Superman, Only Emo" has 14 votes. Please, please vote for the "truth and justice " title."

And my comment....why, why, why is it so necessary for some to make an unrelentingly hostile, nasty environment? To me, thats not even about snark or humor anymore.

Comments

( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
pep_singer
Sep. 16th, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC)
I just think that hostile/negative thread titles will make newbies think that those are "anti" threads, so they'll start "positive threads". I'm much more a fan of neutral/ambiguous thread titles if we must have them.
jeannev
Sep. 16th, 2007 08:42 pm (UTC)
I just simple do not understand why neutral/ambigious is even a problem. I can see leaving it up to a vote, but couldn't we leave the really extreme stuff, good and bad, at the door?
pep_singer
Sep. 16th, 2007 09:06 pm (UTC)
Exactly. I don't want any extremities. I think it makes TWoP an even more hostile environment.
goodvibe
Sep. 16th, 2007 09:13 pm (UTC)
Well, we've already discussed this, and you read my piece at the boards themselves too. ::sighs:: Fat lotta good any of it is going to do. I'll be very happy to see the "emo" option lose, but the whole thing just rubs me the wrong way to begin with. And dont even get me started on the Chloe and Lois titles.

And I couldn't agree more with you. Very little about the SV forums there is about snark anymore. It's just exceedingly hostile barbs in the guise of "snark" or hiding behind the name of "without" pity. It's very difficult to have any kind of opinion that goes against "their norm."
jeannev
Sep. 16th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)
And to me, diversity of opinion is what makes a place the most interesting, and keeps the conversations most interesting and lively. Its such a rare thing in the SV fandom to find a place where that exists.
miss_tress
Sep. 16th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)
And don't even get me started on the Chloe and Lois titles.
Not to get you started but I read the list of Chloe ones and it seemed like half of them were digs at the expense of Lois and it just made me feel bad for both characters.
sparkz0r
Sep. 16th, 2007 11:43 pm (UTC)
I had to go over & vote. I'm glad that option is winning now.

I also really hate just about all of the options for the Lois thread subtitle. Nasty, ugly & completely biased. Bleagh. Visiting TWOP always makes me despise a lot of my fellow Chloe fans.
kissme_myfool
Sep. 17th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC)
Despise? ouch.

Glad your option is winning now, V :)
jeannev
Sep. 17th, 2007 03:39 am (UTC)
Thanks S. :)

Honestly, I hope all the subtitles would be fun for all the characters. Thats all I ask. I don't understand why any of them have to be offensive.
tasabian
Sep. 17th, 2007 02:10 am (UTC)
I voted for "I prefer Intergalatic traveller" which is one of my fave Clark quotes ever - but it's not doing very well in the poll.

Bit of a can of worms this subtitle idea :(
jeannev
Sep. 17th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)
It really is, and I don't understand why the new mod is pursuing it. She seems a nice sort. But honestly, wasn't it all chugging along just fine without subtitles? I mean, she had to have known this was going to go badly.
tasabian
Sep. 17th, 2007 04:43 am (UTC)
Mars does seem very nice - but I don't think she foresaw what she was getting into with the subtitles. Oh dear! If the polls are going to stay up for another week, that's a lot more time for drama to fester.

BTW, I am loving that Nemesis icon!
pep_singer
Sep. 17th, 2007 04:49 am (UTC)
I love that quote, too. Really, i'd take anything over BDA or BDAA or whatever other negative title.
juxtoppozed
Sep. 17th, 2007 05:29 am (UTC)
And my comment....why, why, why is it so necessary for some to make an unrelentingly hostile, nasty environment?

Because they're stupid bitches with very little else to look forward to in their lives. Character-bashing and the cheers it gets somehow validates the inordinate amounts of time they spend on that black hole of logic for a forum (but just try to even mildly critique one of their favorite characters).

And the funny thing is, they honestly believe that most people think as they do and that unwarranted hostility like that (in the title or comments) is just fine if enough people want it, not wanting to admit that they simply ran off most people with sense because they're bitch ass insane and there's no use talking to people who are bitch ass insane over fiction. :)

That's my unfiltered way of saying...I would vote if I could hon.
jeannev
Sep. 17th, 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)
Its not that I don't understand speaking up for your favorite character. God knows I do it with Clark. And its not that I don't understand disliking another character. Though I've never been much for unrelenting character bashing. But what I do know is that I personally find it a lot more interesting and stimulating to be around people that have a lot of different opinions, and likes and dislikes. I mean, is it just me?, or does that make for the livliest conversations?

And hell, I'm probably as insane as anyone, and I certainly never pretended to have a life LOL ;)

But whatever the prevailing opinion might be on any MB, shouldn't the board itself maintain some appearance of neutrality, or just flat out declare itself a fan board/bash board for specific characters? And shouldn't that just be common sense for a moderator?
juxtoppozed
Sep. 19th, 2007 09:56 am (UTC)
God knows I do it with Clark.

Most of the time you do it when it makes absolutely no sense though, their comments re: Clark are always stuck on "Senseless Bashing", their opinions rarely substantiated with actual examples from the show because they think everyone agrees with them, and their callousness that there are people who enjoy the character for valid reasons is a constant. Meanwhile reasoned critiques with plenty of evidence re: other characters are summarily dismissed and the validity by volume thing is used to drown it out.

From what I remember, a handful of those "regulars" don't actually watch the show or watch a few scenes and then post all day, hence my snark about the inordinate amounts of time they spend...don't know if that's changed.

shouldn't the board itself maintain some appearance of neutrality, or just flat out declare itself a fan board/bash board for specific characters?

Absolutely. I've actually seen people justify things as "Well, this is a Lana or Lois-unfriendly board" or "Well this is Chloe fan board" and it's mind boggling. It's like, "Now why do you think that is, genius?" No one wants to say "Hey I think Clark is awesome, Lois is great, Lana's not so bad" and get eviscerated so not many people bother to show up or stick around. Unlike Sweet or other specific sites, twop doesn't have a specific character or ship label on it and people shouldn't assume that it does or should unless they really can't handle other opinions and backing up their own.
jeannev
Sep. 19th, 2007 01:59 pm (UTC)
Meanwhile reasoned critiques with plenty of evidence re: other characters are summarily dismissed and the validity by volume thing is used to drown it out.

Ain't that the truth? But in TWoP's defense, they aren't the only forum like that. K-Site is very much like that as well. You can write paragraphs, with examples and actual lines from the show, and you might as well have written "Blah, Blah, Blah" for as much as its acknowledged.

Honestly, I rarely bother anymore unless something really gets under my skin. Occasionally I'll point out the raging hypocrisy of the constant bashing on Clark for the Lana thing when Chloe and Lex are just as anxious to shove themselves up her ass as Clark. Usually I get some nonsensical response of him doing it more, or more is expected of him.

Anyway, the subtitles thing has been solved for now since the mods decided to assign subtitles. They aren't particularly clever or funny (I find Omar rarely is anymore), but at least there is some parity. Its better then the alternative, though I'd still like someone to explain to me why subtitles were suddenly absolutely necessary when things were going along just fine without them.
juxtoppozed
Sep. 19th, 2007 02:10 pm (UTC)
The thing that makes twop especially hypocritical is that unlike K-site, they tout themselves as the place where all the thoughtful discussion is at (I guess because they use less smileys and complete sentences?)

That's good...i checked it out today and shit's crazy enough there without adding fuel to the fire and making it hard for people to post. And yeah, Omar hasn't been funny since about Season 2. He totally pandered to that forum, making Clark-hate the main feature of his caps (check out his write up of the spell Clana prom dance, or his reaction to Clark not telling Lex his secret in the ruined farm house with his parents missing in arrival for some gems) and going from writing/thinking Lois is awesome to inexplicably trashing her with sexist comments. At least there's a new mod now.
jeannev
Sep. 19th, 2007 04:32 pm (UTC)
You are absolutely right about the difference between K-Site and TWoP. And the thing is that I do believe there are genuinelly funny, smart, insightful people on TWoP. But its almost as if everyone has just fallen into a rut and do even try anymore.

K-Site is more like a general free-for-all with a lot of youngsters. And I'll say this, its pretty fair.

Yeah, every Omar recap is Clark bashing, but more disturbingly, its a lot of TW bashing. And he clearly despises the show, and it makes his humor bitter and ugly. Just read another recapper to see the difference. The guy that does Supernatural is hysterical. And he loves the show, even when its silly and cheesey.
jeannev
Sep. 19th, 2007 04:33 pm (UTC)
"and do even try anymore."

Obviously that should be DON'T try anymore *sigh*
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Sep. 17th, 2007 09:13 pm (UTC)
And I guess thats why this is always such an issue for me. Its not because people have one character preference over another. So do I. And I do believe in a certain "Buyer Beware" type of mentality, in that you know know when you enter certain forums whats in store. But *for me*, what gets my panties in a bunch is not having a fair board. Posters will be posters. And if there are more on one team then another, well, thats just the way the ball bounces. But unless the board is promoting itself as a fan board for certain characters only!, then it really needs to have some vague semblence of neutrality. Nasty thread subtitles for some characters, with Rah-Rah subtitles for others just makes the whole board seem totally bias. And I think thats bullshit.
pep_singer
Sep. 17th, 2007 10:45 pm (UTC)
//And it's kind of amusing to me that so many over there think TWoP is one of the more fair-handed SV fansites!//

Yeah, whenever I read that particular claim, I have to guffaw. Seriously, how in the hell is TWoP balanced?

And whenever I try to show Clark understanding or sympathy, it's completely bombared with "BDA" or "How is this guy gonna be Superman" and just other shit of the like. I've had to pick and choose my battles. :(
juxtoppozed
Sep. 19th, 2007 09:48 am (UTC)
I think Clark is a lot brighter than people give him credit. He doesn't talk much but when he does he makes sense and looks at things from nuanced angles, thoughtfulness that people on twop overlook. You need to be smart and sensitive in order to relate to people and have them trust you with their problems and Clark always manages to inspire people to do that, and sometimes to even change. Unfortunately people base their evaluation of his "intelligence" on his love for Lana. In that case, everyone in Smallville is a vegetable. Hell, Lex is older than him and spent a great deal of time and energy pursuing and keeping her.
jeannev
Sep. 19th, 2007 02:01 pm (UTC)
I agree on Clark's intelligence. I think TW is right when he said Clark is a character based more on heart then intelligence. However, I don't think that makes him dumb at all. But like so many things, you can point out all the smart things Clark has done till the cows come home, and it doesn't seem to make a lick of difference. So, why bother?
juxtoppozed
Sep. 19th, 2007 02:17 pm (UTC)
Besides the Lana thing, there's also this unspoken idea that earnest/naiive/idealistic people are dim, which I don't agree with. Personally I think he shines when they have him investigate by himself. The solo investigative stuff in subterranean was the norm in seasons 1-3. Waiting for someone's computer to dictate stuff is never compelling, but that's another rant for another time. And yeah, I don't think spitting out facts is an indication of intelligence, and don't think romantic choices indicate a lack (look at all the smart people who are total screw ups in love) He's going to be dealing with people as a superhero and reporter his ability to get them to open up and trust him is invaluable.
peace_lily
Sep. 18th, 2007 04:49 pm (UTC)
I thought the subtitles could be cute and funny but several of the submissions are cruel and nasty. I liked the idea someone had of using quotes that the characters said about themselves or characters said about each other; that would have been more neutral. As it is using negative or derogatory subtitles could make the TWOP forum more hostile.

Clark is my favorite character and I really hate the BDA and emo labels that are placed on him. Lois is another one whom I think gets a lot of unfair criticism and hate. As much as I dislike Lana I know she has her supporters and we should be sensitive to them as well.

BTW, I'm totally loving all the TW pics! That's how I stumbled across this journal. Hope you don't mind my stopping by here.
jeannev
Sep. 18th, 2007 06:57 pm (UTC)
I don't mind at all. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. :)

I was actually one of the people that suggested using quotes that the characters have used about themselves. But for some reason, compromise and reason doesn't seem to have place in this disagreement. And I absolutely believe that keeping the place hostile and biased is precisely what a few people are going for.

Ironically, the Lana choices that are winning are not that bad.
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )

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