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Much more punctual this week.  I think I just wanted to get this one out of the way.





And this week, on Chloeville...

Episode Running Time: 41m, 38s (previously on: 1m, 6s)

Clark: 12m, 51s
Chloe: 20m, 36s
Jimmy: 10m, 38s
Davis: 15m, 43s
Oliver: 16m, 59s

Season to Date (# of eps):

Clark: 402m, 6s (20)
Chloe: 274m, 12s (20)
Lois: 146m, 35s (11)
Jimmy: 103m, 24s (10)
Tess: 98m, 29s (11)
Davis: 109m, 52s (11)
Oliver: 112m, 39s (10)

Just an interesting little fact, Allison Mack has surpassed the season screentime total for any character NOT named Clark.  By a lot.  Meaning Lex or Lana were never featured as much in 1 season.  Just something of note.

Now, onto the melodrama

Type your cut contents here.

Ah, another episode focusing on my favorite thing, Chlavis.  And when I say "favorite", I mean not at all.

Yet another SV installment that is relentlessly dark, where all the characters seem to bother me on some level, and where I think the messages the show is sending are extremely twisted.  I don't mind ambigious or enigmatic characters.  But when ALL the characters are that, it gets a bit tiring.  And I also just don't think this should be THAT show.

Obviously, what do I know?

For me, Chloe contines to be "The Lana" of this season.  And I do want to clarify something here.  When I refer to Chloe as "The Lana", I'm not trying to insult KK, or even Lana.  I'm just saying that this is a storyline thats cobbled together from Lana storylines, and I have no doubt at all that this was written for their "leading lady", and thats been Lana for them for so long, I think it shows in the set-up and writing.  They just plugged Chloe into it, and made some small adjustments.  But I still don't think its a good fit for Chloe, because although I've had problems with Chloe's characters from time to time, I've never see her written as a dumbass wrapping herself up in martyrdom.  Until now, that is.

Lana to Clark in Power:  "You would have never let me go through with it..."

Chloe to Clark in Beast:  "I knew if I told you any sooner, you'd have found a way to stop me..."

Ah, those similarities keep on coming.

I was just wondering, does that mean Chloe is SWFing Lana?  LOL, I keed, I keed.  I hate that whole nonsense.  Bottom line is that these writers aren't that creative, so they tend to march over the same ground.  Its really as simple as that.

The first time I watched this episode, I thought the end scene made it clear that Chloe's prime motivater was Clark.  But having watched this episode again to get the totals, I think I'm changing my position.  And the most damning piece of evidence (well, aside from the sex dream) is Chloe's comment to Oliver when he asks her when the killer became more important than innocent people.  Her answer "He needed me".  Not Clark needed her.  Not that she was protecting those innocent people, or Clark.  Nope, it was "he needed me".  I don't see how else once can interpret that line except for it as a revelation of a large part of Chloe's motivation.

Then you had the scene in the FOS.  While I actually liked the way Clark and Davis were shoving each other around, and I liked how Clark was calmly trying to reason with Davis to do the right thing, I just thought the scene completely fell apart when Chloe showed up.  Her bullshit about Clark not wanting to get blood on his hands is either once again an illustration of just how far her and Clark's ideals have drifted apart....or, it was all a load of crap to berate Clark, and manipulate his emotions, so that she could spirit Davis away.  Would Clark feel bad about putting Davis in the Phantom Zone?  Yes, I think so.  But I also think he would deal with that, and move on.  Chloe's whole line of reasoning that this decision would tear Clark apart falls apart when what she does guts him far more.

And this comes to my biggest peeve with this episode, and with Chloe's actions.  The phone call at the end, which some seem to find so swoony, and which I see as one of the most fucked up things Chloe has ever done to Clark.

Chloe to Clark:  "Everything I've ever done, right or wrong, I did for you."

Now, think about that line, and let it sink in a little.  

How can someone say that to Clark, and really care about his feelings?  Anyone that knows Clark knows how much guilt and responsibility he takes on for the actions of those around him, and then you say THIS to him?  How is this even remotely cool?

"I harbored a serial killer...but it was for you"
"I murdered a guy in a hospital bed....but it was for you"
"I tried to convince you that you were paranoid and full of fear....but it was for you"

OMFG!

Also, lets entertain for a minute that Chloe was sincere in believing that Clark would let the decision to send Davis to the Phantom Zone eat him up.  How the heck is calling him to tell him that you are going to babysit a kryptonian monster for the rest of your life all for him, and no need for him to worry and look for you, not going to eat him up?  In the grand scheme of things, and as viewers of the show who have watched Clark for 8 years, what do you think would be harder for him to recover from and reconcile?  What do you think would more dominate his thoughts and actions and life?  What do you think would take him away more from his heroic alter-ego, and more towards obsessing on one particular person?

I don't know how anyone can look at the situation, and not see that Chloe's phone call and reasoning would not cause Clark far more guilt, pain and feelings of responsibility then sending Davis to the Phantom Zone.

And because of that, I don't understand the phone call at all.  Or, she was full of shit in the FOS.  It can't be both.  

For the record, I have no doubts at all that Chloe is going to completely skate on her actions.  I'd place a bet on it.  Clark is the one thats going to get stuck with the check for this one.  

BTW, I actually hated that Clark just stood there in the FOS, and let Chloe scold him like he was an idiot child, and then he just let them waltz out of there.  And then worse, the show never lets Clark verbalize why he did that.  Because again, and for reasons unbeknownst to me, the writers seems to think Clark's POV is the least deserving of being expressed on screen.

But, I did like a lot of what Clark was doing in this episode.  He was proactive, and resolute, and Tom gave a magnificent performace.  But I don't understand Clark's decision to let Chloe and Davis waltz away.  And I do believe that decision is going to come back and bite Clark in the ass, and I believe thats why it happened.  A contrivance to reach a desired endpoint.  

I actually understand Oliver's point about wanting Doomsday killed.  What I don't understand is why Oliver isn't questioning if thats even possible given the fact that Davis has been resurrected twice now.  Ollie makes it all sound so simple, and it shouldn't be.  And I just can't quite get comfortable with a "super hero" who is all gung-ho on the killing.  

Sam Witwer was sure chewing the scenery.  Can you imagine a Davis/Lionel scene?  My god!  Add the actor that played Zor-El, and the screen might explode from the scenery chewing and the hamminess.


AA was very good in this episode, though Jimmy the junkie storyline does nothing for me.  But it appears to be over as quickly as his marriage.  As good as Jimmy and Ollie were together, I do sort of resent that they seem to have made more progress with selling Oliver and Jimmy as friends then they ever did with Jimmy and Clark.  

I had to laugh though when Oliver offered Jimmy a job because of how good he was in action.  From what I saw, Jimmy tried to bum money for drugs, then got defensive, then tried to steal money, then tried to anatagonize a killer to end his life.  Oh yeah, put that boy on my payroll!!

I have to throw in the towel on the Clark and Oliver "friendshp".  I'm just done with lecturing and the nastiness.  

Did Chloe threaten that doctor with Doomsday if he dared go against her?  Hmmm, I seem to recall Lana threatening a doctor if he dared go against her and Lex.  Chalk up another one!

So, who unchained Oliver and Jimmy from the basement, and how did they know they were down there?  Clark ran out with Davis, Chloe hadn't arrived yet.  Ah, one of those SV mysteries.

Nice effect with Clark grabbing Davis and running though.

Honestly, even though it makes no sense to me given what we've seen this season, I do think the script was written with Clark coming off looking jealous that Chloe would choose someone over him, and I think Tom played it that way.  I don't think it fits the season at all, but there it is.

To my Lois/Clois friends, I have a feeling that if Clark does get a beatdown from Davis, and someone does cradle him in her arms, its going to be Chloe.  Because she's "The Lana" this year.  I do think they would do that, just as they had Clana kissing on the roof of the DP.  Its just a hunch, but I'd brace myself.

And I guess thats it.  2 more to go, and I expect them to be aggravating, bleak and totally not told from Clark's POV.  I. Can't. Wait.  

Comments

( 34 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 07:35 pm (UTC)
I actually didn't have a huge problem with the image of Clark in Chloe's dream if I thought it knocked some sense into her. But it didn't seem to change her demeanor towards Davis at all. So, it felt a bit like shock value just for shock value sake, and if thats the case, why bother?

I don't mean to be a harbinger of doom for Lois or Clois fans. It just feels like the way the wind is blowing. Sorry :/
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 07:40 pm (UTC)
I think SV broke my optimism button. I used to be optimistic about SV. Then I watched S6, and S7, and now S8. After a while, it seems more prudent to adopt a more defensive strategy.

I think Erica likes to project a lot of positivity about the show, and I think she likes to stick up for her character. However, I've found that I don't always see the things she seems to describe, for lack of a better way of putting it.

Truth be told, I pretty much take what all the SV actors will a huge grain of salt. They all seem to be seeing the show from their own eyes, and it rarely feels like the whole picture. Ironically, the only actor who seemed really good at a whole picture kind of POV was Tom, and of course, he apparently would rather jam needles in his eyes then give an interview.

I'd be thrilled to be surprised.
jlvsclrk
May. 2nd, 2009 08:42 am (UTC)
I can only assume Chloe's totals are so high because they lost both Lex and Lana this year, not to mention Lionel. Sure they brought in 3 new people, but one of them hardly ever appears without her by his side due to his creepy obsession. What really shocks me is the difference between her minutes and those of Lois: talk about underutilized talent!

I totally agree with everything you said here. Especially:
I don't know how anyone can look at the situation, and not see that Chloe's phone call and reasoning would not cause Clark far more guilt, pain and feelings of responsibility then sending Davis to the Phantom Zone.

I find it utterly unfathomable that some people found that conversation romantic. I just saw it as manipulation. Frankly, I wouldn't have been surprise if the camera had panned to the inside of the gas station store they had stopped at and showed Davis left a dead body behind while Chloe sneaked off to place the call. That's what it will come down to in the end - its impossible to stay connected with somebody else 24/7.
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 07:43 pm (UTC)
I agree with you on why Allison's totals are so high. They've actually done this with her for a while. She just sort of absorbs other peoples roles. This year, its the traditional Lana role.

I've posted many times about how screwed up I think this cast configuration is.

I also find it unfathomable to see that phone call as romantic because I can't help seeing it from Clark's POV. I think it was a horrendous guilt trip to place on him.
kissme_myfool
May. 2nd, 2009 09:01 am (UTC)
*cautiously steps into I hate Chloe* I loved the episode, but I'm sure you would have guessed since Chloe is still my favorite.

I sense you like the lighter episodes, understandable. I prefer the darker ones this season, they've been unbelievable and a large part due to Sam.

I think if we never would have gotten that interview where BP points out the thin line Chloe is walking wrt Clark and Davis, nobody would have doubted she was doing it for Clark..

I doubt Chloe will be cradling Clark...unfortunately :/

Also, thanks for the Scree Time totals...yes she has a lot of minutes...but I want morrrrrrrrrre. Lots of it is exposition...so its hard to find real Chloe in all that ST...Eternal, Abyss and Beast differ from earlier episodes.

Edited at 2009-05-02 09:02 am (UTC)
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 07:50 pm (UTC)
Believe it or not, I don't hate Chloe. I hate the way they've written the character over the last few seasons, I hate the way they use her character to Clark's detriment, and I hate that they've plugged her into the Lana role.

But I'm sure if I was all about Chloe, I'd be loving this storyline. I'm just not. I watch for Clark.

I do like the lighter episodes better. I have no clue why anyone thinks a show about a young Superman should be a gothic horror novel. I'm tired of always seeing Clark miserable, or wrong, or guilty, or being scolded. Its just not a lot of fun to watch that. And when they contrast it week-to-week with episodes where he actually seems to smile, and seem comfortable with himself, then the shift in tone is all that much more dismaying to me.

Actually, even without that interview from BP, I think Chloe's own words and actions paint her motivations as questionable. I also don't find her "doing it for Clark" to be a good thing. I'd really like people to stop doing all this crazy crap "for Clark" when he didn't ask for it, doesn't want it, and should be shown as being capable to handle things on his own. That might paint Chloe as heroic and self-sacrificing, but it takes a big dump on Clark. I felt the same with Lana's actions in S6 & S7. Really, People, STOP doing it "all for Clark"! Its kind of creepy.

I think in the past, lots of Chloe's screentime was exposition, but not so much the case this season. I think a lot of her screentime is Chloe time. Whether you like the direction her storyline is taking is another story, of course.

Edited at 2009-05-02 07:52 pm (UTC)
carolandtom
May. 2nd, 2009 09:25 am (UTC)
So much WORD!

No need for me to comment on particulars because I agree with everything!

Just one little thing: this may seem minor when compared to the multiple "wrongs" of this episode, but I too hated the Jimmy/Oliver sudden and show-horned "friendship". And worse still, I'm sure they wrote that particular storyline because they didn't know what to do with those two in an episode that had to be Clark-light, (in fact they don’t know what to do with Jimmy at all!) and came up with that stupid idea and went for it, disregarding the weight of the Clark/Jimmy friendship in the DC universe over the years. That's how these SV writers do things and that's why the "WTF" moments won't stop coming.
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 07:55 pm (UTC)
That's how these SV writers do things and that's why the "WTF" moments won't stop coming.

QFT Carol. It is how these writers do things, particularly Souders/Peterson. It just doesn't bode well for our Clark, does it?

The thing is that I wouldn't have minded the Jimmy/Oliver stuff so much if 1. they hadn't completely ignored the development of the Jimmy/Clark friendship, and 2. it didn't come out of thin air because they needed it for this plot.
goodvibe
May. 2nd, 2009 09:50 am (UTC)
I could quote everything you said about Chloe because I completely agree with it all, but especially this:

//How can someone say that to Clark, and really care about his feelings? Anyone that knows Clark knows how much guilt and responsibility he takes on for the actions of those around him, and then you say THIS to him? How is this even remotely cool?//

It really isn't. I have tried rationalizing Chloe' actions this season, given her the benefit of the doubt several times - you know that from my reviews, but I think I just hit rock bottom with her character this ep. And it's now going to take a helluva lot for me to regain any kind respect or attachment. It hasn't been a hasty, judgemental thing for me, because I'm not even a huge Chloe fan to begin with, and yet I still appreciated whatever good moments of characterization she had this season, and gave her the benefit of the doubt at times when I couldn't understand her. But I'm being brutally honest, I reached my limits of annoyance here. Oh and also? I forgot to mention this in my own review, but ya, that was a definite threat she doled out there to the doc. There really isn't enough STFU for her in this ep, far as I'm concerned.

//Honestly, even though it makes no sense to me given what we've seen this season, I do think the script was written with Clark coming off looking jealous that Chloe would choose someone over him, and I think Tom played it that way. I don't think it fits the season at all, but there it is.

To my Lois/Clois friends, I have a feeling that if Clark does get a beatdown from Davis, and someone does cradle him in her arms, its going to be Chloe. Because she's "The Lana" this year. I do think they would do that, just as they had Clana kissing on the roof of the DP. Its just a hunch, but I'd brace myself.//

I do strongly think that aside from the Lana arc detour, the show, ::shockingly:: actually ::has:: picked a 'ship, so to speak (Clark/Lois) and stuck with it throughout the season, but I will agree that I foresee no such paralleling of Clois in the finale with the iconic scene from the comics where she cradles his dead body in her arms. I definitely agree that they've set Chloe up to the ultimate heroine figure in all of this, so yes, of course, this too shall naturally be her domain. Oh, no, I'm not peeved at all. /sarcasm/

::sighs::

And those numbers---

::sighs again::
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 08:05 pm (UTC)
I think I understand what TPTB are trying to show with Chloe, and her motivations, and her actions. What I can't seem to wrap my mind around is why they don't see how fucked up it is. But thats why I keep harping on the Lana connection, because this is exactly the way they wrote for Lana. Its uncanny to me.

And because that connection is so apparent to me, I just know how this is all going to end, and its Clark thats going to get it in the neck in the end. Its all so familiar to me, and it was aggravating enough the first few times I watched it. Now, it just makes me tired.

*GASP*, I found a place we disagree. Call the press! LOL I actually don't think the show has picked a ship. I think they're still playing around.
(no subject) - goodvibe - May. 3rd, 2009 10:21 am (UTC) - Expand
duskwillow
May. 2nd, 2009 10:39 am (UTC)
Yikes, I can't believe Clark had so little screen time, compared to the other 4.

And the most damning piece of evidence (well, aside from the sex dream) is Chloe's comment to Oliver when he asks her when the killer became more important than innocent people. Her answer "He needed me". Not Clark needed her. Not that she was protecting those innocent people, or Clark. Nope, it was "he needed me". I don't see how else once can interpret that line except for it as a revelation of a large part of Chloe's motivation.
Oh I forgot about that. But agreed. Her dream is proof enough for me, her subconscious couldn't have spelled it out more clearly.
If anything I think her actions in this episode set things in motions that will help that dream happen, not stop it. In her dream she's trying to deny her feelings for Davis, ends up jumping him, just to see that her keeping Davis safe cost Clark his life. In this episode she's trying to tell herself she's doing all this for Clark, stops Clark from doing the right thing and send Davis to the Phantom Zone, thus saving Davis and going away with him, continuing to protect him. It's the same thing as beginning of her dream..

Her bullshit about Clark not wanting to get blood on his hands is either once again an illustration of just how far her and Clark's ideals have drifted apart....or, it was all a load of crap to berate Clark, and manipulate his emotions, so that she could spirit Davis away. Would Clark feel bad about putting Davis in the Phantom Zone? Yes, I think so. But I also think he would deal with that, and move on. Chloe's whole line of reasoning that this decision would tear Clark apart falls apart when what she does guts him far more.
If anything it will haunt Clark more if/when people end up hurt & dead because Davis isn't in the Phantom Zone.
And I think that's his "price" he'll have to pay in finale, post showdown, because he let Chloe change his mind.

I saw no jealousy in this episode coming from Clark btw. I just saw him being the same dedicated friend he always is. But I think he let them leave FoS because he didn't know how to deal with Chloe, she basically turned on him there and what was he to do, she caught him unprepared.

I'm not worried about the death of Superman Clois scene.
Chloe might have the classic central storyline that has to do with the villain, but she's not the love interest. Lois fell for Clark, Clark is falling for Lois. If there's anything big coming for any ship in the finale, it will be them.
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 08:11 pm (UTC)
I actually expected him not to have a lot of screentime, so I was actually prepared for that. All things considered, they did a much worse job of handling Tom's need to prep for directing in the last 2 seasons, and the episodes Static and Sleeper.

If anything it will haunt Clark more if/when people end up hurt & dead because Davis isn't in the Phantom Zone.
And I think that's his "price" he'll have to pay in finale, post showdown, because he let Chloe change his mind.


Right, exactly! This situation will go bad, Davis will kill again, Clark will try to contain the situation and the whole thing will get fucked up, and then the show will point a finger at Clark and say "Its ALL YOUR FAULT!" Can there be any doubt?


gildinwen
May. 2nd, 2009 11:28 am (UTC)
Frankly...the only reason I'm not considering going after Chloe with my cricket bat, is because Davis is in love with her, and I don't want to unleash Doomsday. Seriously she needs to die.


Chloe is a fucking idiot. The PZ is designed for the most dangerous criminals, ever. What does she think Davis is, if he's not that? He killed 50 people. 50!!! Chloe, that blood, and the blood of all the others is on your hands. I hope she can live with herself.

And she doesn't have any respect for him as far as I can see. Clark has been saving since he was fourteen. He's been doing it on a wider scale since he ws 18. I wish Chloe and Oliver would STFU, and get this. That Chloe as Isis meta I have brewing? yeah the final pieces just fell in place. I don't want Clark to feel guilty because he has nothing to feel guilty for. But he will because the show's producers just love dumping on him.
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC)
LOL, tell me how you really feel.

I actually don't think Chloe needs to die. I just think she needs to go back to resembling who she used to be, and I think the show really needs to rethink how they write, and how they write her in relation to Clark. Because she's a good character. She certainly can be. I just don't like where they've gone with her.
(no subject) - gildinwen - May. 2nd, 2009 08:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
tasabian
May. 2nd, 2009 04:51 pm (UTC)
Heh, as I was watching this I was thinking "Val's going to hate that bit!" "Right now, she's wanting to punch Oliver in the face!"

I found this to be such a ridiculous potboiler episode that I enjoyed it very much. You're absolutely right that Chloe is marooned in a Lana-plot - I only wish they'd used this same plot-line in S7 for Lana & Zor-El!

But I still don't think its a good fit for Chloe, because although I've had problems with Chloe's characters from time to time, I've never see her written as a dumbass wrapping herself up in martyrdom. Until now, that is.
This plotline also has the creepy Al/Miles obsession with Lana being forced to "sleep with the enemy" (Lex, Bizarro) while still being in love with Clark. And it will inevitably end, whether Chloe lives or dies, with Clark and the writers concluding that it is ALL HIS FAULT.

I had to laugh though when Oliver offered Jimmy a job because of how good he was in action. From what I saw, Jimmy tried to bum money for drugs, then got defensive, then tried to steal money, then tried to anatagonize a killer to end his life. Oh yeah, put that boy on my payroll!!
It's been suggested that Oliver intends to use Jimmy as "bait", which would probably be his most practical application, apart from "throw rug." The Oliver/Dooms/Jimmy scene had me laughing hard all the way through.

Sam Witwer was sure chewing the scenery. Can you imagine a Davis/Lionel scene? My god! Add the actor that played Zor-El, and the screen might explode from the scenery chewing and the hamminess.
His performance makes the episode for me - now that Dooms is out in the open, there's less moping and more campiness ("A world without CHLOE?") SW is free to go over the top and just like Zor-El, I loved it. Tom & Michael have sometimes looked pained by horrible lines of dialogue - SW embraces the cheese.

Even though Tom was light on scenes this week, everything Clark did and said was sensible, especially compared to everyone else in the show! And there should be some very pretty screencaps of Clark glowering at Oliver, Notice how Clark really wasn't accepting any of Ollie's criticism this time? Good on ya, baby!
jeannev
May. 2nd, 2009 08:52 pm (UTC)
HaHaHa!! I'm so predictable. Hey, no one can ever accuse me of not being consistent.

The show can be a lot of fun if you can just learn to laugh at it, and not let it effect you. I need to work on that. A lot.

And it will inevitably end, whether Chloe lives or dies, with Clark and the writers concluding that it is ALL HIS FAULT.

Absolutely. You can carve it in stone. Its a given.

If spoilers regarding SW playing a different characer next season do come to pass, I can't even imagine the level of cheese we'll be getting. I suspect "SCIENCE!" might get some competition. Though I'm not sure anyone will ever top that fight promoter from Combat. He was hilarious.

Actually, until that scene at the FOS, I thought this was a really strong episode for Clark. After that? It sort of went downhill. Tom did play Clark like he was inches from mashing Oliver like a bug in that last scene. That was fun.
canadabear
May. 2nd, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC)
Ah, just when I think I couldn't believe Chloe would be any stupider, you show me the light. Wow. Personally, though, I do believe Chloe believes her bullshit about doing it all for Clark, and I think her performance in the Fortress was just that - it was an act for Davis. She's clearly lying to Davis about why she's helping him. He's not the most important person to her, yet she told him he is. He's unaware that she called Clark, or that she's as upset as she is about leaving. I doubt he knows she broke down after dumping his bodies, either. So I think the whole "Clark, you know better than this now let's go Davis, I won't let the big bad alien hurt you" was to further convince Davis that she really is on his side and his side only. It's just she isn't letting Clark in on it.

To my Lois/Clois friends, I have a feeling that if Clark does get a beatdown from Davis, and someone does cradle him in her arms, its going to be Chloe.

I have to say that even though I've been loving the Clois this year, I think Chloe does honestly deserve that moment. No, I don't think it makes her "ILL", but Chloe's been in the thick of All Things Clark for so long that it truly would be her who is utterly heartbroken to see him battered and dying, especially due to her own actions. Lois is too much of an outside in the Doomsday plot for her reaction to be as meaningful for me as Chloe's would. But I also think that Lois and Clark have many more meaningful moments to come in the future, so I'm okay with it.
jeannev
May. 3rd, 2009 12:07 am (UTC)
Interesting theory on Chloe. Its just...well, it reminds me of the recent Lana arc...no matter which way I try and look at it, its just bad.

I think if they aren't going to give that big iconic moment of Clark lying dead to Lois, then they shouldn't do anything like it at all. Give Chloe some other sort of moment. I understand that this is SV, and all. But I also understand that these big moments mean something very special to followers of the comic books, and the other source material, and handing out big Lois Lane moments piecemeal is pretty disrespectful and hurtful. I can't see myself being OK with that.
(no subject) - canadabear - May. 3rd, 2009 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - May. 3rd, 2009 01:55 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - psychme - May. 3rd, 2009 01:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - May. 3rd, 2009 01:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
May. 3rd, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC)
I see what you're saying about Lana. And you could very well be right. I do think that Lana was bent and twisted to fit whatever storyline they wanted to do with her, so I can't say for certain that she wouldn't be all about cozying up to the serial killer, but I can easily see them playing up Lana's martyr side a bit more then they have with Chloe. Which is still quite a bit.

I think where we most differ though is that I don't think "leading lady" can be taken so generically. Just because one female replaces another female as the most prominent member of the supporting cast doesn't mean that you can just tell the same sort of story and expect it to work. I have a hard time watching this story and feeling like Chloe works in this capacity at all, leading lady or not.

But irregardless, I do think the end result, and fall-out (or lack thereof) is going to be very familiar.

I can't care any more, because his default setting really is "smug, self-righteous tool."

Ya know, I think this is the first time and really thought about it, but one of my biggest issues with Oliver this season is the way Justin Hartley is playing him. I think JH is a talented actor. No question. But he's really been playing up the prick angle of Oliver this season, and I can't help but wonder if he pulled back a bit on that, at least with Clark, the way the character would come across would be less abrasive.

tariel22
May. 4th, 2009 07:20 am (UTC)
I was just wondering, does that mean Chloe is SWFing Lana?

HAHAHAHA! You are wicked. Okay, here's what I really don't like about where the show seems to be going. They are turning Chloe into Lana, and they're making me struggle to like her the way I always have. I'm not always happy with how much Chloe does for Clark, or how often she tells him what to do, but I do like Chloe, a lot. And the last few episodes, she is really beginning to piss me off. And I just know that if they keep it up, I'm going to start resenting her the same way I eventually resented Lana (whom I also used to like). And further, the moment I express that feeling, I will be labelled a "closet Cnoiser" and a "shipper" and that will piss me off even more. So I wish they would just cut it out. I don't want to dislike any of the characters on this show.

That line about Clark not wanting blood on his hands didn't make any sense at all to me. That was a major WTF moment for me. I was all, um, Chloe, have you MET Clark? Poor Clark, he was just completely floored by her betrayal. I think for a second there he couldn't even process what was happening. I really, really want him to hold her accountable, but, like you, I doubt that will happen.

I knew this episode was Clark light, but I'm shocked by how few minutes he had. It didn't feel like that to me, I guess because every minute he was onscreen was a thrill in this one. God, remember Sleeper? *shudders* I hope Injustice isn't Clark light, too. Thanks so much for the minutes, as always. It's always fascinating to ponder them.

I didn't see Clark's reaction in that last scene with Oliver as romantic jealousy. It seemed more like the hurt you feel when your best friend starts hanging out with someone else, and in this case, someone who is bad, whose appeal is incomprehensible, making the choice of them over you even more hurtful and insulting. If that even makes sense. I really don't think the Chlark ship is on the radar for the show. I wouldn't put it past them to be deliberately ambivalent, though. Give the Cloisers Stiletto, then give the Chloisers Beast, and just sit back and hope they'll all keep watching. That would be business as usual.

Anyway, I agree with almost everything you say. I'm a little more hopeful about what's to come, but I think that's just because I'm way more delusional. :) And I'm on such a high from Tom's performance in this one, I just can't stop smiling! I love him! *is a dork*
jeannev
May. 4th, 2009 08:44 pm (UTC)
HAHAHAHA! You are wicked.

Well, come on, thats about on the same level of crazy, right?

For me, its all about how other characters are written in relation to Clark, and how it effects him. And maybe that makes me overly myopic, but I can't help it. If the SV writers were better writers, then I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about this. But they're not, so I do.

That line about Clark not wanting blood on his hands didn't make any sense at all to me. That was a major WTF moment for me. I was all, um, Chloe, have you MET Clark? Poor Clark, he was just completely floored by her betrayal. I think for a second there he couldn't even process what was happening. I really, really want him to hold her accountable, but, like you, I doubt that will happen.

No, it won't happen.

I have huge problems with the whole Fortress scene once Chloe showed up (before then, it was great!). But I think what bothered me most of all was how she humiliated Clark in front of Davis with her parental scolding. My God, it was horrible. I'm sure AM was just doing what the director wanted, but I hated the whole tone. Its just hard to watch that scene and come away thinking Clark is Chloe's priority, because everything in her dialogue, delivery and body language suggest otherwise.

You aren't delusional, you're an optimist and hopeful. And thats a good way to be.

And if its dorky to love Tom, then I'll gladly put on my dork cap. =)




Edited at 2009-05-04 08:44 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - tariel22 - May. 4th, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
May. 5th, 2009 06:26 pm (UTC)
I'm not too crazy about the idea of Clark dying in Chloe's arms because we've already seen that in Odyssey. Something tells me that the season finale will see the reverse.

Yes, Chloe is the new Lana with the way she's been written. This is what Lana would've been had KK returned for the 8th season full-time, but the scenario would've been different in that someone else would've died for her selfish actions.

The writers need to break out of the Clark/ Lex/ Lana triangle formula.
jeannev
May. 5th, 2009 07:02 pm (UTC)
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't want to see Clark die in Chloe's arms. I don't want to see Clark die in ANYONE'S arms, actually. I think they shouldn't go there at all. I don't think they have the scenario in place for it to have the sort of impact it did in the comics, so they shouldn't do it at all.

The writers need to break out of the triangle nonsense, period. I know that was AlMiles' big thing, and Souders/Peterson seems to have picked up right where they left off. I think its tedious.
svgurl
May. 6th, 2009 10:01 am (UTC)
Your icon is SO appropriate. I feel you, Clark, I really do.

Thanks for the screentime minutes! I always forget that Clark's numbers drop the episode before he directs until said episode actually airs. Then I'm all "where's Clark?" :\ In this one, I needed him more than ever since he was the only character I still loved by the end.

Yet another SV installment that is relentlessly dark, where all the characters seem to bother me on some level, and where I think the messages the show is sending are extremely twisted.
The story of Superman should never be this dark. It's really frustrating.

How can someone say that to Clark, and really care about his feelings? Anyone that knows Clark knows how much guilt and responsibility he takes on for the actions of those around him, and then you say THIS to him? How is this even remotely cool?
It's ridiculous! I am tired of people using the whole "I'm doing it to protect you" excuse to Clark. HE'S AN ADULT WITH SUPERPOWERS ... LET HIM TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF! And they're always using it to cover their own selfish actions too. GAH!

For the record, I have no doubts at all that Chloe is going to completely skate on her actions. I'd place a bet on it. Clark is the one thats going to get stuck with the check for this one.
Agreed. I mean, didn't one of the producers even blame Clark for Davis being Doomsday in an interview? Ugh, I have no doubt that it will show on the actual episode too.

Jimmy Olsen the drug addict does nothing for me either. It's all kinds of wrong. He should be at the DP, hanging with Lois and Clark.

I do sort of resent that they seem to have made more progress with selling Oliver and Jimmy as friends then they ever did with Jimmy and Clark.
Oh, I'm extremely bitter at the fact they're building up an Ollie/Jimmy friendship, which is completely unnecessary IMO, while they ruin any chance of a Clark/Ollie friendship and don't even try for a Clark/Jimmy one. FAIL, SV, MAJOR FAIL!

To my Lois/Clois friends, I have a feeling that if Clark does get a beatdown from Davis, and someone does cradle him in her arms, its going to be Chloe. Because she's "The Lana" this year. I do think they would do that, just as they had Clana kissing on the roof of the DP. Its just a hunch, but I'd brace myself.
Yeah, I've considered that too and I'm mentally preparing myself. :(
jeannev
May. 6th, 2009 01:30 pm (UTC)
I think I need a few more icons like this one. It just suits me at the moment, so well.

Suprisingly, Clark's screentime was not one of my issues with this episode. Although I'm supremely annoyed that he's not more of the focus of these episodes on the home stretch, the reality is that he's directing the next episode, so I expected less of him. And all things considered, they handled that better with this episode then they have for the last 2 seasons.

I just don't understand why the writers don't understand why having all these people do these stupid, heinous things "for Clark" that it not only makes them look looney, but its a detriment to Clark himself. Because he either needs to made to appear to need them to do what they're doing, so he comes off weak. Or, he has to condemn them, which makes him look unforgiving. Or, he has to absolve them, which makes him look morally weak.

He can't win!

At this point I can't even imagine what they'll come up with in the finale to blame on Clark, or how they'll make the events of S9 his fault. But we all know thats what they'll do.
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