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The S2 Project marches on!


So, we left on Visage, correct?

Well, since then, Insurgence thru Rosetta have been rewatched, and the screentime totals completed.  We saw a bit of a dip in Clark's screentime for Prodigal and Fever, but he's had a season high (so far) in Rosetta

I know S3 is generally considered the "Luthor" season, but I don't know.  I'd argue that S2 has a lot of Luthor focus as well.  Argueably more, maybe.

Random Thoughts:

Insurgence

I've always liked this episode, and I still do.  It makes me sort of sad to know that we'd never get something like this now.  The location shooting, all the extras.  Those days are sadly gone.

I forgot how squirmy the Martha/Lionel stuff was.  When Lionel presents her the watch in this episode, she's impressed.  And we find out later that she keeps it!  Even finding out what Lionel was up to.  Martha, you big 'ho!  LOL

Yes, Jonathan is a dick to Lex in this episode.  But one thing I won't hold against him is his anger about Lex possibly having a hand in what went down.  I know there's a lot of opposition to Lex being accused without proof, but I find it hard to get worked up about that when I know he's guilty.
 

I still love the leap.

First time in this season that someone has more screentime then Clark in a single episode.  Clark gets beat by his mom in this one.

Suspect

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!!!!!

My God, this episode is boring.  But Clark was smart, and put the pieces together.  I liked that.  And yes, Clark was wrong to accuse Lex, but I can see what his emotional state was and where he was coming from.  I thought the Clex talk at the end nicely mended fences.

I liked Dominic.  Too bad he disappeared.

Ultimately, this is one of SV's most forgettable eps.

Rush

I know a big deal is made of this episode, but I'm only so-so on it.  A lot of beat-up on Clark in this episode, and I'm not a big fan of that. 

There are also a number of things that bug me.  The lack of a resolution scene between Clark and Lex.  The fact that Clark can't think up anything to tell Lana, but instead just looks at her blankly.  How disturbing Pete acts in this episode.  Its just not a favorite.  The car catch is cute though, and Clark is very sweet with Chloe at the hospital.

Its this episode that makes it very hard for me to empathize with Chloe at the end of the season.  Her outrage at Clark and Lana getting together is just irrational and ridiculous.  She knows, because of this episiode, that Clark wants to date Lana, and Lana wants to date Clark.  And in this episode, she tells Lana to "go for it".  But later on its a betrayal?  Because Clark and Lana didn't clear it with her first?  PFFFTTT!

Prodigal

I'm not a fan, mostly because the actor that plays Lucas rubs me completely wrong.  I think its the furry caterpillars that he calls eyebrows.  Or maybe its the stupid ass way he holds the gun sideways.  Moron!

Lots of Luthor family dynamics here though, so I think the episode has merit for that alone.

Whatever my feelings about eyebrow boy, I do think its a travesty that the character of Lucas was never seen or mentioned again.  Why bother with him at all then?

For the Clexers, Clark clearly puts Lex above Lana when he runs off the job to make sure Lex is protected. 

Jonathan is even nice to Lex at one point, but I think its interesting to note that as soon as we have Jonathan saying Lex was welcome back, he gets hit over the head and knocked unconscious by Lex's brother.  Duoh!

Fever

Or, as I like to call it, "Martha Kent has Issues!".  She's hiding the pregnancy, she's hiding the key.  Can there be any doubt where Clark gets his influences from?

I like Helen in this episode a lot.

Chloe reading the letter is very sad.  I do feel bad for her.

And Lana is kind of a creep in this episode.  From the not visiting Clark when he's sick, to the move she makes on Clark shortly after reading the letter Chloe wrote....I don't know.  Just not a sterling moment for her.

Pete the Product Placement Pimp strikes again!  "Its the Talon Mix".  LMAO

Lex briding a doctor to get Martha's medical files was all sorts of creepy and wrong.

And finally, Rosetta

Rosetta is one of those episodes that is beautifully put together, an incredibly strong story that speaks to the very heart of the show, incredible Kent family scenes, great direction, and the most amazing guest star they could ever hope for.  So, why don't I love this episode more?

I think its because there are these little nitpicky things in the episode that just bug.  The entire Chloe/Lana stuff, which culminates, for some unknown reason with Chloe groveling to Lana even though Lana was the one that did something wrong.  The fact that Clark keeps lamely brushing off Lex, and doesn't seem to acknowledge how legitimate Lex's questions are.  The fact that while I can see how Lex's questions are valid, I'm still rubbed the wrong way by his manner in regards to Clark.  And I know this is all nitpicky stuff, but it takes something away from the episode.

I love the actor that plays Dr Walden though.  He's hysterical.

And the Kent family scenes in this episode....See, when people talk about the heart going out of SV, and the warmth, and connect that back to the loss of the Kent family, this is a good episode to watch and see the difference.  There was something here that the show lost and could never replace.  The scene where they are all hugging is really beautiful, as is the Clark/Jonathan scene at the end.  TW, AOT and JS were just incredible with each other.  You believe them.

So, only 6 more to go, and S2 can be tallied up, and added to the comparison numbers.  I still hope to find a good way to display all the data, ep-by-ep, someday, but I have yet to figure out a good way to do it.

Comments

( 32 comments — Leave a comment )
miss_tress
Dec. 10th, 2008 05:08 am (UTC)
Ultimately, this is one of SV's most forgettable eps.
It really is. I had to think long and hard about what the ep is about even after reading what you had written. Is it the one with the dead body in the freezer at the Wild Coyote?
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - miss_tress - Dec. 10th, 2008 05:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - Dec. 10th, 2008 06:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
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svgurl
Dec. 10th, 2008 05:28 am (UTC)
I wasn't a big fan of 'Rush' either. The scene with Clark revealing his powers cracks me up but other than that, I don't care for it.

I love the Kent family moments in 'Rosetta' ... Clark was just happier then. But the Chloe/Lana scenes bug me too! I was SO annoyed that Chloe felt she had to apologize when Lana was the one who was snooping around. I never really believed their friendship though, save for a few times. Some of those times were deleted scenes too. :\
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:08 pm (UTC)
I think Rush gets a lot of attention because of the Clark/Chloe make-out stuff, and I can understand that if you like them as a couple. But the episode overall isn't that strong. And man, everyone has something nasty to say to Clark in this one. What fun...only Not!

I just don't understand why they didn't have Lana be more contrite in Rosetta. I'm not suggesting that she did anything evil or unforgiveable, but at least act like you're sorry, instead of acting like you're being unfairly rejected. Chloe's reaction had nothing to do with you not being part of the family, and everything to do with your poking around her stuff.
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:16 pm (UTC)
Hey, you're back *hugs you*

This episode is also why I have zero patience for it when people claim The Girl Code should have somehow kept Lana from pursuing Clark.

I have no patience for that either. At no point is Chloe not aware of how Clark feels about Lana. And vice versa. I'm not saying it doesn't suck for her. And I'm not saying that it isn't painful. But she's not struck out of the blue with it. At no point in S2 does Clark act like he's on the verge of asking Chloe out, or changing his feelings.

Ya know, KK once said something, I think it was around S4, that I thought was spot on. She said that it was hard to really believe in the Chlana friendship because they both were in love with Clark. They both wanted Clark. He was sort of their connection, and their feelings put them at odds. I thought that observation was spot on. Maybe later, when Chloe seemed to come to grips with her feelings for Clark, and the value of their friendship, I could believe the friendship Chlana. But prior? Nah, never really rang true.
goodvibe
Dec. 10th, 2008 11:00 am (UTC)
Total agreement on 'Insurgence.' Great use of the characters, and when I was rewatching it, I realized it grew on me even more, and the leap holds up very well.


//Its this episode that makes it very hard for me to empathize with Chloe at the end of the season. Her outrage at Clark and Lana getting together is just irrational and ridiculous. She knows, because of this episiode, that Clark wants to date Lana, and Lana wants to date Clark. And in this episode, she tells Lana to "go for it". But later on its a betrayal? Because Clark and Lana didn't clear it with her first? PFFFTTT!//

My feelings exactly. It's no surprise that I'm just not a fan of S2 Chloe at all, and again, rewatching the series is sometimes very insightful, because when I was doing so, I realized my initial feelings wrt Chloe in this season more than held up. She is just unjustifiably bitter and passive agressive throughout. 'Rush' has never been amongst my favorites, but some of it was fun, especially the Chlark Talon scene.


I liked 'Prodigal' well enough when it first aired, and I think I basically still do. The Luthor stuff is a lot of fun, and MR and JG are spot on. However, the ep loses major points in hindsight, through no fault of its own, because it is just inexplicable how Lucas has been retconned out of existence.

I'm not a 'Fever' fan at all. Probably one of my least favorites of the season. All that sneakiness - and Lana, and her self absorbed selfishness in this one, in particular, just grates. And I suppose this may just be my total aversion to anything S2 Chloe, but I never find myself moved by her letter.

Wrt 'Rosetta', while I see where you're coming from, and I do recognize the flaws - the most glaring of which IMO is the completely unnecessary, annoying and useless Chloe/Lana subplot, the ep still ranks amongst my all time favorites. I think the standout scenes in the ep are so powerful, that they not only overshadow any flaws, but they elevate the ep, in entirety too. The Clark/Swann sequence - all of it, is SV getting it right, and so very well. I still get goosebumps when I watch that scene. It resonates, and compels me to this day. There was so much promise in that one, single scene, for all that it spoke of heritage and history, and actually connecting Clark to a larger picture. And then ofcourse, the external reasons for what makes that one of the most iconic moments - the glorious, sometimes haunting, sometimes soaring background music, and the late, great CR. What a fantastic use of such an important guest star.

And then there's the Kent scenes, which just hold true for me even today, no matter how many times I watch them. Their scenes are SV at its best, and some of the most emotionally moving moments of the entire series.

//The scene where they are all hugging is really beautiful, as is the Clark/Jonathan scene at the end. TW, AOT and JS were just incredible with each other. You believe them.//

Very well said, and ITA. The Clark/Jonathon scene in particular is so marvelously written and acted.
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:23 pm (UTC)
I think one of the things that really works with Insurgence is the action and the tension level. Its like a mini-movie. And even the bad guys are solid actors.

I'm not really sure why SV brings up ideas that are pretty solid, like Lucas or Henry Small, then just drops them in an abyss. And particularly with Lucas, because he could really have worked as a recurring presence.

One thing I didn't mention about Rosetta, and its my oversight, is that the Clark/Dr Swann scene is so beautifully done and acted. Tom was great, and CR is just powerful. Its a great scene!

But also when you rewatch, you realize what a shady character Dr Swann really is. He has his goals, but his methods are a bit manipulative and sneaky. He uses a bit of emotional blackmail on Clark ("If you walk away, this door will never be open to you again"), and when Clark asks him why he's doing this to him, he bluntly states "because I have to know I'm right". Dr Swann was an interesting creation. But a good guy? I'm not so sure.

The Kent scene in Rosetta where Clark is trying to reassure them that no matter what he finds out, they'll always be his Mom and Dad just chokes me up.
(no subject) - goodvibe - Dec. 11th, 2008 02:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - Dec. 11th, 2008 03:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
jlvsclrk
Dec. 10th, 2008 11:09 am (UTC)
I've been watching S2 recently as well and my thoughts generally match yours. I like Rush a lot but I agree that what Pete did was awful, and the encounter with Lex really did need some resolution. And then there's Lana, ooy vay. Maybe I should reevaluate!

I know what you mean by Rosetta. Of course its a huge episode mythology wise but my favorite scenes are with the Kents struggling with their fears of how things will change if Clark accepts Swann's invitation. The Lana-Chloe scenes were somewhat interesting the first time I watched them but now that I know Chloe is going to wind up apologising to Lana, well, I just have to hit the fast forward.

Suspect is definitely in contention for the top 10 worst list. And I rate Fever as poorly because I hated the whole deus ex machina angle.
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:25 pm (UTC)
I know Pete is under the influence of the wormy thing, but there seems to be a genuine desire to hurt Clark thats a bit scary. Chloe may have her bitterness (and her desire seems to be more about hurting Lana). But Pete? He's just really scary.

Oh yeah, good point about the end of Fever, and the whole "the ship cures everyone". How dumb was that?
beef_wonder3
Dec. 10th, 2008 11:37 am (UTC)
For Prodigal, I really didn't like Lucas either although I'm not sure why, because thinking on it, I'm kinda pissed he didn't get so much a mention during the GrantIsJulian arc last season. Although I was very happy with the idea of a Clex sleepover. Do you think they told ghost stories & had a pillow fight? *g*

The scene where they are all hugging is really beautiful, as is the Clark/Jonathan scene at the end. TW, AOT and JS were just incredible with each other. You believe them.
I totally agree. That Clark/Jonathan scene was amazing. They open an ALIEN SPACECRAFT and all Jonathan thinks is "it's hard to believe [Clark] was ever that small". And the last shots of Jonathans' loving/content face contrasted with Clark's worried one is very powerful.
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:27 pm (UTC)
One thing you can say about Prodigal, the Clex is great in that one. From Clark's jealousy of Lucas, to his apparent happiness at having Lex stay at the farm, to his running off to protect Lex. Its very Clex-y.

JS is really awesome in Rosetta. I'm not sure he's ever really gotten the credit he deserves for how good his performances were on SV. And Jonathan was a difficult character to play.
gildinwen
Dec. 10th, 2008 12:16 pm (UTC)
Ummm yeah, this season is where my intense dislike of Chloe began, and like I always have to raise an eyebrow when Chlarkers call Clark and "BDA" not liking Chloe that way, and being obsessed with Lanan and breaking Chloe's heart.
But it was obvious that Clark was NEVER going to see Chloe that way, from the very beginning, and Chloe knew it. So her passive aggressive attidude toward the two of them really pisses me off. Not to mention she sold him out to Lionel. Why on earth would Clark even want to be friends with her after that.

Chloe's the one at fault for not saying how she really feels, about Clark and Lana dating...if she can't that's her problem not theirs. Clark may have a ton of abilties but the ability to read minds isn't one of them.

Sorry you mention Chloe and Season 2 and it's like turing on a tap with me I swear!!
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:30 pm (UTC)
I know one of the things that bugs me is Clarks "supposed" bad treatment of Chloe. I think he's very upfront with her, and I do think he's a good friend to her. There are some bad moments, yes. From both sides. But Clark never leads Chloe on. He never deliberately tries to hurt her. He's just not in love with her. Sometimes, thats just the way life works out.

S2 is a very tough Chloe season. She has some great moments, but her behavior is troubling in stretches as well.
tariel22
Dec. 10th, 2008 12:39 pm (UTC)
I love Insurgence, I think it's an amazing episode. First view of the DP, Maggie Sawyer, and that glorious leap! But I still don't know if Lionel was blind or not at that point.

I agree that Suspect if forgettable. I always skip it when I'm rewatching the season. I was bummed they made Sheriff Ethan the bad guy, especially when I read that the actor cried while making the episode because he was so sad to leave the show. :(

I don't like Rush very much. Pete's behavior made me angry and upset, and Chloe's wasn't much better. And I never understood why Clark couldn't have told Lana he was infected by a parasite, too. And don't even get me started on S2 Chloe.

I liked Prodigal for Clark's petulant jealousy, Lex staying at the Kent farm, and all the amazing Clex first-time fic that episode inspired! :)

I liked Fever for all the intrigue. Everyone was sneaking around in that episode! I really didn't like Lana at the end, though, reading the letter and then making her move on Clark. Not because I thought she should step aside for Chloe or anything like that, but it made it seem like she didn't really want Clark until she realized how deeply Chloe cared for him, and that was just kind of icky.

Rosetta is one of my favorite episodes, for all the typical reasons. And it has my absolute favorite commentary. I love that scene where they all hug! I just used it in my latest Tom Top Ten, and it's a beautiful moment, and a turning point for Clark, I think, where he disagrees with his parents, but is totally up front about it, and they have this wonderful conversation where he gets them to see his point of view. I also love that last scene between Clark and Jonathan, where they're hugging, and they both look a little freaked out.

It's great to revisit these early episodes. Thanks for posting your thoughts!
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:34 pm (UTC)
I'm going to vote for Lionel still being blind in Insurgence, but really, who knows?

Awww, now I feel bad for the Sheriff Ethan character :( I know he was very fond of Tom.

I hate that Clark doesn't offer Lana any explanation in Rush. Why doesn't he say he's infected? Why doesn't he say he was trying to play along to find a way to get Chloe and Pete to the hospital? But instead he offers her nothing. Its very frustrating!

Revisiting older eps is fun. I hope to do this for S1 as well, when I get to it.
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 06:36 pm (UTC)
The loss of the Kent family tore open a hole in this show which nothing has filled. Its so strong in the earlier seasons, and it was a dimension of Clark that added so much.

S2 Clex is great stuff. Signs of strain, but generally a lot of closeness and caring.

I guess the Lucas actor really didn't agree with me LOL
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Dec. 10th, 2008 10:11 pm (UTC)
I miss Ma and Pa Kent too :(

S2 is uneven. I think thats a perfect way to describe it. And even its hi's and low's seem middle-of-the-road.

If Clark sent Chloe mixed signals, I would understand the complaints. But he never does. Not ever. He can't help that she's in love with him. He clearly wants to be her friend, cares for her as a friend, and shows it. I just really don't understand what else he could've done.
jakrar
Dec. 11th, 2008 12:33 am (UTC)
Insurgence

Yes, Jonathan is a dick to Lex in this episode. But one thing I won't hold against him is his anger about Lex possibly having a hand in what went down. I know there's a lot of opposition to Lex being accused without proof, but I find it hard to get worked up about that when I know he's guilty.

Given Jonathan's tendency to accuse Lex of things of which Lex is innocent (and to refuse to apologize after he learns that Lex is innocent), and his near-total failure to thank or credit Lex for the good things he's done, I have no patience whatsoever for Jonathan's accusations and threats toward Lex, even when there's a grain of truth in his suspicions. Yes, Lex sent people to LuthorCorp to plant bugs...but he also did everything he could to make sure they'd be there when no one else was, and he did everything he could to call them off as soon as he found out that Lionel and Martha were going to be in the building. Lex also did everything he could to negotiate Lionel and Martha's safe release. Not to mention the fact that, by the end of the episode, Jonathan is talking about using Martha's job to spy on Lionel, which really gives Jonathan no ethical high ground from which to bitch about Lex using Lionel's own tactics against him. *spits at hypocritical Jonathan*

Suspect

And yes, Clark was wrong to accuse Lex, but I can see what his emotional state was and where he was coming from. I thought the Clex talk at the end nicely mended fences.

Given that Clark was the one in the wrong (especially with that cruel jab about having seen Lex shoot someone, when Lex shot that guy to SAVE Clark and Jonathan), yet Lex was the one who essentially apologized to Clark, rather than the reverse, I wouldn't call the end of the episode much of a fence-mender. *glares at Clark*
jude_judith82
Dec. 11th, 2008 12:38 am (UTC)
I can barely watch Rosetta without thinking of the commentary when Rosenbaum was going on about the chicken scratch/chicken scatch comment. Poor Pete he's always going to be product placement dude.
jeannev
Dec. 11th, 2008 01:55 am (UTC)
That commentary is great, isn't it? It totally cracks me up. I hate that we only have Michael and Tom doing commentary together on 2 eps. :(
eeyore1017
Dec. 11th, 2008 04:47 pm (UTC)
Reading this entry reminds me why I don't rewatch Season 2 as often as some of the others. I didn't dislike any of these episodes- they're just not my favorites.

Part of the reason I don't watch Insurgence more often is because of Clark's limited screentime. The whole Martha/Lionel storyline never interested me.

I do like Rush because of RedK Clark and the hot Chlark moments, but I could take or leave the rest of the episode.

I like Rosetta too, but I think I would rather listen to the DVD commentary for the episode than actually watch it.

Prodigal and Fever are episodes that I watch every so often, but they're not favorites.

I do miss the Kent family chats sometimes. I really wish that Martha would come back and see how heroic and grown-up her son has become.
jeannev
Dec. 11th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC)
There is something a little "blah" about S2. Not that its bad. Just a bit...underwhelming?

I just watched 2 pretty odd SV eps back-to-back, Visitor & Precipice. They just contributed to the hard to describe vibe I get from S2.
tasabian
Dec. 12th, 2008 03:25 am (UTC)
"Prodigal" definitely makes my SV top ten, for the Clex and how marvelously jealous Clark gets when Lucas turns up. Tom actually snorts like a bull during the basketball game, and isn't bothered when Lucas gets hurt. And every barn scene is a sexy-Clexy delight!

I think Insurgence is a wonderfully well put-together episode, with lots of good dialogue. Love Lex sweeping Lionel's hand off Clark's shoulder at the end and yes, the leap is brilliant.

I kinda love "Suspect" for the boy-drama and the sheer evil of Lionel.

There are also a number of things that bug me. The lack of a resolution scene between Clark and Lex. The fact that Clark can't think up anything to tell Lana, but instead just looks at her blankly. How disturbing Pete acts in this episode. Its just not a favorite.
This ep feels anticlimactic, like it's missing a third act. I do love the out-takes though. Michael: "Tom's killing me!" Tom: "What?"

I barely remember Fever, except for Clark looking so pretty when he's sick!
jeannev
Dec. 12th, 2008 03:33 am (UTC)
Prodigal might not be a favorite of mine, but its definitely primo Clex! And who can't find something to like about that?

And thats a good description for Rush. Truth be told, I get the feeling that this episode was one thing, then someone demanded that they do another Red-K Clark ep (probably the network, as we know from the AlMiles Red commentary, the network wanted Red K Clark all the time), and they sort of rewrote a lot of stuff but didn't quite finish it off. Thats just how it feels to me.

And oh man, does Clark look like Sleeping Beauty, or what?
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Dec. 12th, 2008 04:02 pm (UTC)
Its not often that you see Martha with mondo screentime. I think Clark can definitely afford to spot her one ;)

Its interesting to watch Dr Swann now, here and in Legacy, knowing about all the Veritas stuff. But even without that, I think there are reasons to take issue with Dr Swann and how he behaved. Taking the key from Clark "for his own good" was another thing he did which seemed highly manipulative. And really, what right does he have?

But there's no disputing how much Chris Reeve brought to the role. He was such a presence.
( 32 comments — Leave a comment )

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