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 Screentime totals for Siren (and color me surprised!)





Siren, running time: 41m, 43s

Clark - 19m, 30s
Lex - 3m, 2s
Lana - 10, 49s
Chloe - 7m, 33s
Lois - 12m, 37s
Lionel - 3m, 34s

And added extra bonus

Oliver - 13m, 41s
Dinah - 12m, 27s


Season Totals (# of eps)

Clark - 174m, 32s (11)
Lex - 70m, 32s (11)
Lana - 88m, 22s (11)
Chloe - 95m, 25s (11)
Lois - 64m, 30s (7)
Kara - 75m, 9s (6)
Jimmy - 30m, 38s (4)
Lionel - 26m, 37s (7) 


I have to say, I was positively gobsmacked that this episode was actually a very strong Clark episode.  I never would've expected that.

Type your cut contents here.


I liked Siren.  In fact, I liked it very much.  But its an odd thing.  I haven't felt particularly motivated to discuss the episode (and so everyone on my flist who posted thoughtful, insightful comments, my apologies).  I'm not sure why.  Well, thats not entirely true, I do know partly why....I am so sick to death of having to defend Clark.  Jesus, but people love to jump on his shit after an episode.  Sometimes, I take that as a challenge, and sometimes I just need to go to my happy place and be zen.  

I think, one day, someone will have to explain to me why so many fans of other characters so highly value Clark's attentions, but seem to think so little of the character overall.  

OK then, enough of that.

I'll start with the guest stars.

Dinah/Black Canary  I liked her.  Aside from an unfortunate lisp &highly distracting lipstick, I thought the actress did a good job.  She had nice chemistry with everyone she did a scene with, and she seemed to get right into the spirit of the character, and the show overall.  I'd love for her to come back for a visit, with or without Oliver.

Oliver/Green Arrow  I admit, he's not my favoritest person.  I think JH does a good job with him, and I also believe he has a nice chemistry with everyone.  But honestly, I've never been overly engaged in the Oliver/Lois romance.  I think it just really bothers me that they've decided to telegraph so much of the future Lois/Clark romance with Lois/Ollie.  And I can't help it, but I'm very big on allowing some experiances and relationships to be unique.  By the time Lois gets around to Clark, it will be the 3rd hero she's been interested in.  And I'm not loving that.

I've also never been a huge fan of the way they use Oliver in regards to Clark.  I understand what they are going for, but in a show where they absolutely REFUSE to allow the main character to break out into proactive, global hero-dom, it just bugs that they bring in another character to snipe at him for doing that which the writers have no intention of allowing him to do.  If that makes sense LOL.  But even keeping that in mind, I think I'm just bothered by the fact that Oliver really doesn't know the details of Clark's life.  Yes, its easy to look at him and say "you're staying home on the farm", but Oliver doesn't know about Kara, or about Bizarro, or about Brainiac, or about Jor-El, or blue crystals, or SCIENCE!, or super power transfers.  Maybe its just me, but Clark leads a complicated life, with Oliver knowing very little about it.

However, in this episode, I do cut Ollie slack, because the truth is that Clark attacked first.  And so, I can't begrudge Oliver hitting back where it hurts.  I do actually think Clark and Oliver have established a fairly interesting relationship in general.

I find Ollie works for me as he was used here, as a guest star.  

Yes, its good to see how ruthless Lex has gotten.  But with less then 4 minutes of screentime, he might as well be any generic villian.  What a waste.

Chloe  She was a lot of fun this episode.  I had expected to be annoyed that she was working with Oliver behind Clark's back, if only because I think Clark deserves enough respect that he should be told.  But in the final product, I think it actually worked better that he didn't know.  For one thing, he's got a lot on his plate right now.  For another, he's very overprotective.  And I like that he is, and I think Chloe is OK with it too.  If I felt like he was stifling her, or being overbearing, I wouldn't care for it.  But it doesn't play that way.  And going by Chloe's dialogue, I think she very much likes to be needed by Clark.  

I know many found Clark's overprotectiveness, and other dialogue about blondes and such, to be hinting at something bigger.  I respect that, even if I don't share that belief.  Clark and Chloe actually felt far less potentially romantic in this episode then they did in the last, Persona.  Here, I felt a very strong, healthy friend vibe.  Particularly from Chloe.  She's amused by Clark's rantings over Lana, but not overly concerned.  I really felt this was a strong episode for Chloe overall.

Though, one thing...the thing with the phone, in her desk?  Thats just sloppy and dumb.

Lois  Erica was great in this episode, wasn't she?  My favorite performance of hers, ever.  And I really felt for Lois here.  I got a kick out of a lot of her lines, and her initial reaction to finding out Ollie was GA was wonderfully amusing.  Her last scene with Ollie, and then later her scene with Clark, were showing Lois at her most vulnerable.  And I like her vulnerable side.  I thought how she equated the lingering scars of the emotional abandonment of her father with why she couldn't be a hero's girlfriend very real, and very understandable.  

But, I'm actually not sure that I thought the ironic dialogue worked.  Because Lois' fears, insecurities and pain were so vivid, and so believable, I guess I'm not really sure why she would change her mind.  I don't know.  I think this is just something I'm going to have to sit on for a while, and think about.

I will say this, I think they did the character of Lois a great disservice by wasting her limited screentime with the assinine hook-up with Grant.  It was beyond pointless, especially since they didn't involve Lois in the arc's denouement.  I think her screentime could've been put to much better use by focusing on her journalism, and giving her more meaningful interactions with the other regular cast members.

Lana Man, this character just works my last nerve at this point.  I didn't care for her interactions with Lionel, not so much from her side, but I actually thought that having Lionel go to her for information was a bit silly.  It seemed like an excuse to puff up Lana's importance.  But I guess I can buy that Lana might know Lex better then Lionel does at this point.  Frankly, the MB doesn't seem to be paying much attention these days.  

As for Lana and Clark, I absolutely loved their fight.  Not surprisingly, I was 110% on Clark's side.  I found Lana's dialogue highly manipulative.  In fact, she reminded me of old school Lex.  The fact that she doesn't believe her transgressions should merit some judgement really tells me quite a bit about what I need to know about her.  She acts like her transgressions are not taking the garbage out and leaving her curling iron plugged in.  Not to mention the fact that Clark has been MORE then understanding with her.  But understanding is not the same as absolution.  Lana wants someone to tell her she's right.  Where she especially reminded me of Lex was the part where she claimed that Clark was the only person she ever really loved.  Luckily, Clark was having none of it.  I didn't even get bothered by the last scene too much, even though I am a big believer that the Clana is a total drag on the show at this point, and detrimental to both characters.  But at least Clark wasn't making grand proclamations, or promises of forever.  And when Lana said she thought he was having doubts, Clark let that hang in the air.  All-in-all, it could've been much worse.

Clark  I really liked him all episode.  I never need Clark to be perfect.  I just need him to be understandable, compassionate, passionate, and to have a desire to do the right thing.  I got that in this episode.  I thought he was a good friend to Chloe, Lois, and yes, even Oliver, in this episode.  Remember, its Clark pleading Ollie's case that makes BC rethink what she's doing.  Sometimes, I think the things Clark does do right in an episode are easily forgotten if he does ONE thing people don't like.  I find that frustrating.  

I also loved his save at the mansion.  I'll put it as simply as this....if Clark doesn't come in and intervene, all 3 of those people are not going to leave that mansion alive.  Possibly none of them.  And he doesn't rush in looking for glory.  He doesn't lecture Ollie, or Dinah, about how they approached that.   He just went in, and saved a life or two.  So, next time Ollie wants to lecture Clark about how useless he is, it would be nice if he could remember that moment.  

On the purely technical side of the episode, I hated the effect they used for the canary cry, and I wasn't thrilled with the action sequences.  While it was nice to see Lex hold his own in a fight, I thought it was a bit silly.  But as usual, everyone looked great.  

So, there ya go.  I makes no promises about the coherence of this post.  Jumbled thoughts, fandom grumps and a pinched nerve in my shoulder all make for very muddied meta. :)



Comments

( 37 comments — Leave a comment )
svgurl
Feb. 9th, 2008 06:49 am (UTC)
Wow, he was really in this episode for 3 minutes? Insane. But truth be told, I don't care for Lex so the number doesn't bother me.

I think I agree with everything you just said.

"Maybe its just me, but Clark leads a complicated life, with Oliver knowing very little about it."

Not just you. And this is coming from a bonafide Ollie lover. He doesn't understand Clark's life, doesn't get the obligations he has nor does he know the true burden Clark carries. All he sees is a guy who has amazing abilities but he doesn't get that Clark's an alien and the dangers of what will happen if that secret comes out. He doesn't see Clark defeating the Phantoms or protecting the world from yet another alien attack. That's what i hate about the dynamic ... that Ollie doesn't know what he's talking about half the time when it comes to Clark.

"However, in this episode, I do cut Ollie slack, because the truth is that Clark attacked first. And so, I can't begrudge Oliver hitting back where it hurts. I do actually think Clark and Oliver have established a fairly interesting relationship in general."

I was actually shocked when Clark came in screaming. They parted ways on good terms and the way Clark had mentioned him in previous episodes, it looked like they were friends. I love Clark but he was nasty first so I don't blame Ollie for not standing there and taking it. They do have a pretty interesting relationship.

"I know many found Clark's overprotectiveness, and other dialogue about blondes and such, to be hinting at something bigger."

Yup, with that line brought back the Chlois theorists and I don't support it either. I don't agree.

i LOVED Erica! She was such a show stealer, wasn't she? If I didn't worship ED/Lois already, I so would now. JH & ED have amazing chemistry and their last scene broke my heart. And her scene with Clark ... oh man, I am still giddy!

"As for Lana and Clark, I absolutely loved their fight. Not surprisingly, I was 110% on Clark's side. I found Lana's dialogue highly manipulative."

Lana's getting on my last nerve too and I was so on Clark's side! I hate how they made it all moot like half an hour later though. I wanted Clark to stand his ground and I don't see how mistakes he made at 16 compares to what she's doing now. I love strong, not taking bull Clark.

Clark was awesome here. I loved how he came in and saved everyone. He always makes me smile.

Some people liked the Lex/Ollie fight but I thought it was only okay. I mean, truth be told, Ollie took Lex out easily in "Reunion". This was just a drag.

The Lana/Lionel made roll my eyes but I think the combination of Justin, Tom & Erica really rocked this episode.

Chloe rules as always.

"Because Lois' fears, insecurities and pain were so vivid, and so believable, I guess I'm not really sure why she would change her mind. I don't know. I think this is just something I'm going to have to sit on for a while, and think about."

I think I read someone's review and they said Ollie's statement about how the world would crack and time goes backwards or something before Lois changes her mind is a reference to the first Superman movie. So that happens and Lois will eventually change her mind? :\

Either way, I really liked this episode. In my eyes, one of the best this season.

Sorry for ranting. I have a lot to say on this episode. :D
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 12:31 am (UTC)
I think I agree with everything you just said.

Yay! Thats always fun.

I was actually shocked when Clark came in screaming. They parted ways on good terms and the way Clark had mentioned him in previous episodes, it looked like they were friends. I love Clark but he was nasty first so I don't blame Ollie for not standing there and taking it.

Yeah, me either. I understood Clark's anger due to the Chloe angle, but really, it was out of line.

I wanted Clark to stand his ground and I don't see how mistakes he made at 16 compares to what she's doing now. I love strong, not taking bull Clark.

I agree, but this is in character for Clark. And he's really damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People don't want him to be a pushover, but on the other hand, people want him not to hypocritical, and for him to be forgiving and understanding. Its a tough balance.

So that happens and Lois will eventually change her mind?

Well, obviously she will someday. But I'm just not sure how I feel about them putting this out there for Lois in the bigger picture. For the episode though? She was wonderful.

Sorry for ranting. I have a lot to say on this episode.

Come on over and rant anytime:) I'm really sorry I didn't add a comment or two to your review.
twdiva
Feb. 9th, 2008 07:55 am (UTC)
I am so sick to death of having to defend Clark. Jesus, but people love to jump on his shit after an episode.

Oh boy, do they. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I think, one day, someone will have to explain to me why so many fans of other characters so highly value Clark's attentions, but seem to think so little of the character overall.

It's all about giving their favorite character what they want (or in the case of Clois, what she'll want in the future). I used to be kind of like that in another online fandom. Sometimes I would get very frustrated with the male character in a relationship, but I still wanted my favorite female character to be with him because it's what she so desperately wanted. And despite my frustrations, I wasn't going to give up easily because I had invested so much time into the story at that point. But I never got to the venomous point with that male character that a lot of Smallville shipper fans get with Clark.

I liked her. Aside from an unfortunate lisp &highly distracting lipstick, I thought the actress did a good job.

I never noticed the lisp, but my eyes were always drawn to her lips. But I liked the actress too. I think the way she carried herself made the character be taken more seriously than those photograph stills suggested.

I admit, he's not my favoritest person.

Not mine either, though I agree with you on cutting him some slack in this episode due to Clark coming out swinging. (This is one of those instances where I go completely outside the characters involved and point my frustration towards the writers, because they didn't have to write the scene this way unless someone higher up specifically requested it). I think what actually frustrates me more about the character isn't really the character per se but the way people online react to him and tear down Clark while building him up. You know, like the writers tend to do with other characters to build up Lana. It's annoying enough when fictional characters do that.

And it never fails that someone will start a Yay!Ollie/Boo!Clark thread on K-Site after a GA episode where he's lecturing Clark yet again. But unlike Oliver who doesn't know about Clark, those fans don't really have a good excuse as far as I'm concerned. We've seen Clark actually save the world at least a couple of times, and those times didn't come across to me like some vengeance-seeking adventure against a particular person. All I see with Oliver is him boasting about blowing up Lex's stuff. Which might be all well and good, but it seems that by putting so much emphasis on stopping Lex he either 1) thinks Lex is the only one doing evil in the world that needs to be stopped, and/or 2) he has a vendetta against Lex. So all the claims about Oliver saving the world while Clark does nothing... to say that I'm not seeing that would be an understatement.

I don't care how much Oliver nags and how much others cheer him on. I don't want Clark to give into that pressure because it would look like he was doing it for somebody else, not because he really is ready. People around me tried to convince me to lose weight for years, and I joined weight loss programs mostly to get them to stop bothering me about it. But I didn't stick with those programs very long and gained the weight back (and then some). But last September, I made a choice to lose weight because I decided I wanted to be healthier for me. And I've lost the most weight I've ever lost in any weight loss program I've been in. This is how I see the situation with Clark. He'll do what he's destined to when he's ready, so back off (bitcas).
carolandtom
Feb. 9th, 2008 09:36 am (UTC)
I like how you think! I agree with most of your post and I definitely agree with your comments about the Clark/Oliver interaction in this episode, and in general in the show. Oliver doesn't know about Clark's complicated life and it's up to Clark, and Clark only, to decide what to do with it, when and how.

While Oliver boasts about his deeds, Clark, selflessly and without any recognition, keeps saving lives, Oliver's included. I too wish Oliver knew what happened at the mansion. Then maybe he'd think twice before hurling the same arrogant and unfair accusation over and over to Clark.
(no subject) - jeannev - Feb. 10th, 2008 12:40 am (UTC) - Expand
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twdiva
Feb. 9th, 2008 07:56 am (UTC)
Yes, its good to see how ruthless Lex has gotten. But with less then 4 minutes of screentime, he might as well be any generic villian.

Oh, Lex was in this episode? Really, this got way beyond ridiculous when a recurring character with 4 episodes less than Lex is still getting 5+ minutes more of screentime (referring to Kara, of course).

Erica was great in this episode, wasn't she? My favorite performance of hers, ever.

I'm not one to notice acting unless it's especially good or especially horrible. I tend to just go with the flow. But Erica surprised me in that Clois scene. I think this and her last scene in Commencement have been her best.

But, I'm actually not sure that I thought the ironic dialogue worked.

I haven't given this too much thought, although I can see both points of view. I think it'd hurt my head too much to try and figure out where they're going with this.


Clark has been MORE then understanding with her.

Too understanding at times. In fact, I think he's been more forgiving of her transgressions than he has anybody else on this show, ever. So that line of hers, while it may or may not apply to other characters, sure as hell doesn't apply to her. And I have to say, watching the lengths some people go through to try and defend her in this scene or in this entire season, really opens your eyes to the kinds of hoops they'll jump through to the point of delusion to try and justify a character.

Where she especially reminded me of Lex was the part where she claimed that Clark was the only person she ever really loved. Luckily, Clark was having none of it.

"You're the only one I've ever really loved... except when I was 'happier than I've ever been' with Jason... and Bizarro."

"You're the only real friend I've ever had... except Duncan... and maybe Patricia Swann." HA!

I didn't even get bothered by the last scene too much... All-in-all, it could've been much worse.

That's pretty much my point of view too. I still have trepidation because they can easily make it worse down the line in a future episode anyway. Their track record doesn't speak well.


I never need Clark to be perfect.

Me neither, and yet for all the claims about Superman being boring due to his perceived perfection in the comics/movies, it seems like he'd have to be on this show for people not to complain about him so much (though I'm sure some shipper groups would still grumble because he wasn't with whoever). Like I say, damned if you do...

Remember, its Clark pleading Ollie's case that makes BC rethink what she's doing.

And how much did I love that? In the back of my mind, I was wondering if they'd have GA be the one to show her the light, yet again having that character outstage Clark on his own show. At least they got this one right.

Sometimes, I think the things Clark does do right in an episode are easily forgotten if he does ONE thing people don't like. I find that frustrating.

And even if he does do everything right, some will go out of their way to try and prove he did something wrong in the episode. Like this BS about him letting Lex get hit with the knife in the save scene due to hatred. Quite frankly, I think you'd have to be missing a few screws to miss the blatant point that this non-subtle show was trying to hit you over the head with during this scene. And I've only seen the episode once, so it doesn't take any constant scene studying to pull out an explanation that puts Clark in a heroic light here.

I like that they had him making the kind of split second decision he's going to be making all the time as Superman in the future, but some would rather complain about something than see that. (Plus, someone on LJ had another point of view about why Clark did what he did in this scene. Basically, this person thought that Clark let Lex be wounded so that he wouldn't try to fire off another bullet at Oliver, and potentially killing him, while Clark was busy hightailing BC out of there).
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 12:48 am (UTC)
Oh, Lex was in this episode? Really, this got way beyond ridiculous when a recurring character with 4 episodes less than Lex is still getting 5+ minutes more of screentime (referring to Kara, of course).

My sister was pondering that, perhaps, the show is already prepared for like post-Lex, should MR choose not to come back in a S8. Which would also mean that Lex is going out with more of a whimper then a bang. But with these writers and showrunners? It sounds disturbingly believable.

I haven't given this too much thought, although I can see both points of view. I think it'd hurt my head too much to try and figure out where they're going with this.

LOL, thats just how I feel.

"You're the only one I've ever really loved... except when I was 'happier than I've ever been' with Jason... and Bizarro."

"You're the only real friend I've ever had... except Duncan... and maybe Patricia Swann." HA!


EXACTLY!! Doesn't it sound familiar? Its putting all this weight and responsibility for their behavior onto Clark. And it was crap when Lex did it, and its crap when Lana does it. Maybe Lexana really was a match made in heaven.

And how much did I love that? In the back of my mind, I was wondering if they'd have GA be the one to show her the light, yet again having that character outstage Clark on his own show. At least they got this one right.

I totally agree. This was one episode where I felt like Clark was "the leader", no matter what status Ollie may have had. And even in the last scene with Ollie/Clark and Dinah, its Clark that suggests she join the JLA, and Dinah looking to him to also come on board seems to speak to the future leader role he was play. This is one area where I thought Justice really got it wrong. They all but eliminated the impact Clark had on the lives of Bart, Victor and AC. But here? Clark seems to be matchmaker between Dinah and the JLA.

And even if he does do everything right, some will go out of their way to try and prove he did something wrong in the episode.

Yup, that too. Like I said, its frustrating!
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twdiva
Feb. 9th, 2008 07:56 am (UTC)
On the purely technical side of the episode, I hated the effect they used for the canary cry

The cry in the trailer was what really got me interested in watching the episode. I loved the way it sounded, so I was disappointed we didn't get to hear it in Siren, even if just in the scene where she uses it on Clark.

While it was nice to see Lex hold his own in a fight, I thought it was a bit silly.

It's like with anything they dropped and then bring back after a long hiatus. I know he said he was trained in martial arts but you wouldn't know it watching him for most of the series. So it took me out of the action a bit, because I was thinking "how convenient that they have Lex pull these types of fighting skills now when he's been getting his ass kicked for most of the show".

Wow, this is a long post!
carolandtom
Feb. 9th, 2008 09:47 am (UTC)
Thanks for the screentime totals! And of course thank you for your always insightful and intelligent comments about Clark (and the SV episodes)
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 02:43 am (UTC)
You are very welcome :)
seacrystal
Feb. 9th, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC)
Yes, its easy to look at him and say "you're staying home on the farm", but Oliver doesn't know about Kara, or about Bizarro, or about Brainiac, or about Jor-El, or blue crystals, or SCIENCE!, or super power transfers. Maybe its just me, but Clark leads a complicated life, with Oliver knowing very little about it.

That's why I believe in looking from both perspectives - the perspective of the character himself/herself and the perspective of the audience. Simply for not knowing that Clark has all those other stuff on his plate, I agree with Oliver from his POV. But as the audience, definitely no -- because we have the knowledge of his crazy alien life, but not Ollie. Besides, Clark and Ollie come from two very different worlds and very different personalities. So clashes and misunderstandings are always to be expected.

However, in this episode, I do cut Ollie slack, because the truth is that Clark attacked first. And so, I can't begrudge Oliver hitting back where it hurts. I do actually think Clark and Oliver have established a fairly interesting relationship in general.

I like how Clark calmed himself down, and Oliver following suit before they both changed the subjec.

Here, I felt a very strong, healthy friend vibe. Particularly from Chloe. She's amused by Clark's rantings over Lana, but not overly concerned. I really felt this was a strong episode for Chloe overall.

Agreed. I like how is no longer a Clana cheerleader here, she doesn't believe in supporting Clana anymore. In the past, she did it for Clark's sake and I appreciate that, but sometimes it's just ridiculous. In this episode, she doesn't sugar coat anything and was even amused at Clark's rantings about Lana.

But, I'm actually not sure that I thought the ironic dialogue worked. Because Lois' fears, insecurities and pain were so vivid, and so believable, I guess I'm not really sure why she would change her mind. I don't know. I think this is just something I'm going to have to sit on for a while, and think about.

The scene totally worked for me. I definitely saw that scene as so much more than just irony. This is something that she would have to fight herself in order to overcome it. If she loves the guy enough, she will.

But at least Clark wasn't making grand proclamations, or promises of forever. And when Lana said she thought he was having doubts, Clark let that hang in the air.

Yeah I noticed that as well. Clark from the past would definitely have made some kind of "OH no don't say that we'd always belong together, I know it" response. He's looking at her more as person now, instead of just the ideal in his head, that's why he's able to dish her crap right back at her. But I still think Clana is definitely going to be dragged out until the series finally over.

I just need him to be understandable, compassionate, passionate, and to have a desire to do the right thing. I got that in this episode.

Couldn't agree more.
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 02:47 am (UTC)
That's why I believe in looking from both perspectives - the perspective of the character himself/herself and the perspective of the audience. Simply for not knowing that Clark has all those other stuff on his plate, I agree with Oliver from his POV. But as the audience, definitely no -- because we have the knowledge of his crazy alien life, but not Ollie. Besides, Clark and Ollie come from two very different worlds and very different personalities. So clashes and misunderstandings are always to be expected.

You're right. And intellectually, I know you're right. But on the other hand, my emotional reaction is to get annoyed with the jabs. I can't help it.

I like how Clark calmed himself down, and Oliver following suit before they both changed the subject.

I really loved how both actors played that. I know a lot of people love the chemistry between JH and ED, but for me, I think its the JH and TW chemistry that really clicks and makes me take notice. And that scene was just very well played. I could absolutely believe that both of them felt bad after what they said. And that really goes a long way to making me OK with the hostility.





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tariel22
Feb. 9th, 2008 06:15 pm (UTC)
As always, I love your perspective on this episode! Thanks for posting your thoughts.

I've also never been a huge fan of the way they use Oliver in regards to Clark. I understand what they are going for, but in a show where they absolutely REFUSE to allow the main character to break out into proactive, global hero-dom, it just bugs that they bring in another character to snipe at him for doing that which the writers have no intention of allowing him to do. If that makes sense LOL. But even keeping that in mind, I think I'm just bothered by the fact that Oliver really doesn't know the details of Clark's life. Yes, its easy to look at him and say "you're staying home on the farm", but Oliver doesn't know about Kara, or about Bizarro, or about Brainiac, or about Jor-El, or blue crystals, or SCIENCE!, or super power transfers. Maybe its just me, but Clark leads a complicated life, with Oliver knowing very little about it.

You're so right that they use Ollie's rants at Clark as a ridiculous answer to the criticism that Clark is stalled. I can just see AlMiles thinking, "Well, if we just have someone else yell at him for it once in awhile, that'll be good enough." At the same time, it's just too satisfying to hear my thoughts expressed out loud for me not to love it. I'm selfish that way, what can I say? :) I'm not mad at Clark, I'm mad at AlMiles! :P

Good point about Ollie not knowing much about Clark's life, and that is an excellent reason for everyone to think a minute before jumping on Ollie's bandwagon. I will say I don't hold it against Ollie, though. It's not like Clark shares much, and Ollie's always been pretty impulsive in his actions, so I think this behavior fits with his character. And when he railed against Clark in Rage, I really thought JH gave the speech a touch of wistfulness, as if he just really wanted to have Clark by his side. I think Oliver likes Clark, and is impressed by him, and is simply frustrated that they can't fight the good fight together. Is that fanwank? Maybe. I am, after all, the queen.

While I saw a number of signs in the episode pointing to Chloe being the most important person in Clark's life, like you, I saw nothing between the characters themselves that spelled romance rather than a friendship, albeit a very special one. Chloe in particular seemed completely uninterested in Clark's love life, and supremely amused by his Lana angst. I was actually encouraged by this episode that we may see a Clark who is completely free of romantic entanglements, which is where I think he needs to be before he can choose a life as Superman.

Lois's speech about her military father really rang true for me. My dad was a career officer in the Navy, and was overseas at least 10 months out of every year. I understood why that was necessary, but I sure as hell never dated a guy in the service. I knew I couldn't hack that life.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why they had Lois hook up with Grulian. All that did was make her look like she had no professional integrity, and was a skank to boot. WTF?

I loved the Clana fight beyond words. It was a long time coming, and oh so satisfying. And I don't understand why everyone is saying it was negated by the final scene. I don't see it that way at all. I thought that last scene fit quite well with the rest of the episode, especially in light of what Clark had just heard from Lois about trying to love a superhero. He didn't make any kind of commitment to Lana, he just showed that he still cares for her and wishes her well in the long run. If he ever abandoned her completely, I would be disappointed. Superman never would do such a thing, any more than he would ever completely abandon Lex.

Thank you for the screentimes. I'm hoping to see an impressive increase for Lex with next week's episode!
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 02:55 am (UTC)
I can just see AlMiles thinking, "Well, if we just have someone else yell at him for it once in awhile, that'll be good enough."

Oh, I can easily believe they would think that way...because they have tiny brains. But its nonsensical really. You bring in a guest star to point out the shortcomings that you write into your main character? Huh??!!

I think Oliver likes Clark, and is impressed by him, and is simply frustrated that they can't fight the good fight together. Is that fanwank? Maybe. I am, after all, the queen.

Actually, that doesn't seem like fanwank to me. It sounds very reasonable.

I was actually encouraged by this episode that we may see a Clark who is completely free of romantic entanglements, which is where I think he needs to be before he can choose a life as Superman.

And I honestly believe that this would be the best option for them with Clark at this point. The thing with Lana must end, and we need to see them move past this dysfunctional "love". Chlark, as charming as it might've been, seems to have missed its window. And I can't see a logical way to segue into Clois, aside from hints and anvils. And obviously its too late to bring in a Lori Lemaris-type of character to be transistion girl.

So, single Clark seems to be the way to go. And the added bonus of that is that Clark can still interact heavily with all the girls. Though personally, I'm hoping and praying that KK doesn't come back for S8.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why they had Lois hook up with Grulian. All that did was make her look like she had no professional integrity, and was a skank to boot. WTF?

There was absolutely NO good reason for that. It was just moronic. There were so many other options that would've served the characters, and the show better.

Thank you for the screentimes. I'm hoping to see an impressive increase for Lex with next week's episode!

You're welcome, and I think a bump for Lex next week is a given.








(no subject) - tariel22 - Feb. 10th, 2008 03:19 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - Feb. 10th, 2008 04:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
canadabear
Feb. 9th, 2008 08:13 pm (UTC)
I pretty much agree with just about everything here. SHOCKING I know. :)

I think, one day, someone will have to explain to me why so many fans of other characters so highly value Clark's attentions, but seem to think so little of the character overall.

I think twdiva spelled it out fairly well - basically, they want their fave character to have Clark because that's what their fave wants, not because they themselves do. Other than that, it's like asking fandom to make sense, and well, we can't have that now, can we.

I never need Clark to be perfect.

I think this is an important point, and where I think a lot of the disappointment from other fans comes in. Superman has been portrayed a lot as being almost perfect and above everyone else, even if he doesn't believe that about himself. SV!Clark isn't those things and he isn't in very big, obvious ways and I think that grates on a lot of people who want Superman to be a perfect paragon of truth and justice.

I actually like that Clark has faults and I would probably not be a fan of his character period without them. This episode was a great example of Clark not being perfect, but still coming out looking awesome anyway. I was really so proud of him in that Mansion scene, that he's grown to the point where he can run in, assess the situation, make the best decision, and get out. I even liked that it wasn't even addressed afterward, because it didn't need to be. That's just what Clark does, and I think that's a big step to show for him.
pep_singer
Feb. 10th, 2008 01:49 am (UTC)
ITA with you about Clark. I love the fact that he isn't perfect because I think anyone who has flaws can still be an awesome person.
(no subject) - jeannev - Feb. 10th, 2008 02:58 am (UTC) - Expand
tasabian
Feb. 9th, 2008 09:03 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed this ep. too. It would have been better with more Lex and less Lana but that's true of every SV episode.

I was cheering Clark on in the Clana show-down. He made lots of excellent points and I was so proud of him for not backing down. Even at the end, he's not making any promises. Atta boy! TW seemed to be enjoying himself.
jeannev
Feb. 10th, 2008 02:59 am (UTC)
I thought TW was great in this episode. I saw some complaints about his acting (not many), and it really baffled me. I thought he was completely on-point.

The Clana smackdown was a thing of beauty.
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Feb. 11th, 2008 12:20 am (UTC)
I think if they'd just let him *be* instead of constantly using him as a mouthpiece for how Clark should really be out there, I'd enjoy him more.

Me too. I'm not really sure why we need the contest. Except that I suspect that Almiles were dying for a GA spinoff, so they were all about pimping him up.

You shouldn't *want* his evaluation of things! If you even remotely think of yourself as a decent person, it should bug you that the lack-of-a-moral-compass-having killer thinks your behavior is a-okay!

This is definitely one of my problems with Lana in this episode. Where is the introspection, or the self-reflection? Shouldn't Lana be asking HERSELF why she couldn't tell the difference between real Clark and Bizarro? Shouldn't she be questioning every little moment and asking herself "Why didn't I know?"? Because hell, I know I would. The fact that Lana lashes out at Clark for making her feel like she failed him, instead of asking herself if she actually DID fail him, shows a real personality failing in Lana.

(no subject) - pep_singer - Feb. 11th, 2008 01:30 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - seacrystal - Feb. 11th, 2008 02:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
goodvibe
Feb. 11th, 2008 07:03 pm (UTC)
The save at the mansion? My absolute fave scene of the ep. Gold.

Also, loving the Clark screentime totals. But Lex'? I noticed, while watching the ep, that there wasn't much of him, but I didn't realize just how little of him there was in the ep. That's just ridiculous. And wrong, considering this might very well be MR's last season.

And since I've been so out of it lately, so I have to ask, but what could Clark be getting criticized for, in this ep? I know he's an easy target a lot of the time (damned if he does, damned if he doesn't) but I really thought he was pretty darn heroic, and caring, and the works, in 'Siren.' ::confused::
jeannev
Feb. 11th, 2008 07:14 pm (UTC)
Oh, lets see....

"He let Lex get stabbed"
"He made up with Lana"
"He was mean to Lana"
"He brought Chloe a sandwich she didn't like"
"He was whining to Chloe about Lana"
"He yelled at Oliver"
"His ears bled"
(that must be his fault, somehow)

And so on, and so forth. I know some of it is just little stuff, but week-in, week-out of this. I get tired. And grumpy. :/
(no subject) - goodvibe - Feb. 11th, 2008 08:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jeannev - Feb. 11th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
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