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Well, I'm home from Atlanta.  I had internet, so I've kept up to date on what people were saying.  I even posted one or two things at K-Site, because sometimes I can't help responding to idiots.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who doesn't watch an episode, but yet still goes around posting about it with an opinion, as though they have any clue what they're talking about.  Well, to be honest, people who won't go the fuck away after they swear they aren't watching anymore always confuse the hell out of me.  Jeez, move the hell on already! 

But, enough about that...

Here are the screentime totals:

Roulette, Running Time:  41m, 33s ("Previously On": 48s)

Clark:  11m, 19s
Chloe:  6m, 12s
Lois:  13m, 47s
Oliver:  28m, 15s

Roulette:  10m, 57s

Year to Date Totals:

Clark:  88m, 35s
Chloe:  35m, 48s
Lois:  76m, 13s
Oliver:  56m, 7s (4)
Tess:  23m, 27s (4)
Zod:  10m, 39s (2)

Type your cut contents here

I'm kind of glad I got that whole Oliver rant out before I saw this episode.  It actually saved me a lot of time in the review.  Because, really, I could just say...."what she said"...and I would be the "she" in that case.  LOL

I guess the first thing I would say was that this was laughable.  Not in a good way laughable, but in that "Are you kidding me?  Really??!!" laughable sort of way.

Do people really buy that Oliver is a changed man?  Honestly?  Because I don't - not for one single second.  I still think this guy would put an arrow in Clark's back without losing a wink of sleep over it.  And I'm willing to bet you can count the episodes on one hand before he starts getting digs in at Clark, for not doing this, or that,  right, or not doing things his way, or whatever.  You know, the typical no-matter-what-Clark-does-its-wrong type of thing.

Bottom line, if this episode was supposed to make me believe that Oliver was a changed man, truly repentent for the things he's done, it couldn't have been farther off-the-mark if it tried.

I mean, Come On!  Oliver didn't shoot some hot chick who messed with him in the back, and then he was going to help her out of a fire, and that means he's a hero and not a murderer anymore?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  Oh show, the suck is strong with this one.  I couldn't help but giggle.

For me, Oliver doesn't feel like a person thats been redeemed, or even a person that seems to truly understand what he's supposed to be redeemed for.  Instead, I still get the impression of a self-indulgent, egomaniac who was feeling really, really sorry for himself, got a shock, and now he's convinced he's The Shit again.  Thats pretty much the depth of this particular smallville puddle. 

And worst of all, Clark really had nothing to do with his redemption, or...well, anything.  Clark was a bystander.  We could've used this whole thing as a way to show how Clark can be an example of the people around him, and light to lead someone out of the darkness.  But Nah!  In fact, Oliver's little meeting with Chloe makes it fairly clear to me that he still doesn't really respect Clark, or believe in him.  But more on that later.

And really, let me give special kudos to the show for having a character bottoming out, and then HAVING CLARK HAVE LITTLE TO NOTHING TO DO WITH HELPING TO SAVE THEM.  It takes a very special sort of show to have a character thats supposed to be the main hero, then working so hard to cut him out of the supporting characters stories.

I never thought I'd have missed the Lana "dark arc" of S7.  But at least they allowed Clark to be the catalyst for Lana to pull herself back.  But PFFFFTTTT, Clark doesn't even get to occupy that position anymore.  But this season is more Clark-centric then Ever!  Yeah, pull the other one.....

No, instead the role of Oliver's savior goes to Chloe. 

Now, personally, I think anyone that devises this sort of sick, twisted mindfuck, and finds a way to justify it to themselves that its for a good cause, is one dangerous, twisted individual.  And yes, I think thats pretty much what Chloe is now.  And here's the kicker....I don't think the show is really taking the position that she's wrong.  Not really.  Oh, we might get some sort of shallow lip service that talks about Chloe going too far, and we might get a scene of Clark and Chloe having an arguement, where she will, no doubt,call him weak and stupid (in so many words), before it all gets swept under the rug.  But when I see scenes of characters talking about how Clark "won't do what is necessary", I know thats precisely what the show means. Is there any doubt that this is what Doomsday taught us?     I don't think there can be.  I've long since given up on hoping that there would be satisfying resolution for Clark in situations like this.  I've long since given up hope on the show being written from Clark's corner.  Its not.  It just isn't.  Its more obvious in some eps then others, but this is one of those eps where its clear as day, in technicolor, with subtitles!

I mean, what else can be gleaned from that Oliver/Chloe conversation?  Clark wouldn't do whats needed.  He wouldn't understand the two of them, who have suffered so much (and pardon me while I LAUGH MY ASS off at that).

I can't even express how sick it makes me that Clark has to have "friends" like this.  They don't respect him, they don't believe in him, they'll stab him in the back in a NY minute.  Hell, I don't even think either of them like him.  But I do think Chloe would still give her right arm to hit that. 

And what the hell was Oliver doing up on that building?  He doesn't have super hearing, so he can't hear a call for help.  And even if he could, how long is it going to take him to get down? 

But really, thats a minor quibble about that scene.  The fact that Clark is happily shaking hands with someone who did what Oliver did, and is just fine with it all does the most damage.  It is what it is.  There's really no wanking it.  Major damage was done to Clark to service some melodramatic story for Oliver Queen.  Thats the bottom line.  So, whats required is what is too often required with SV.  Short term memory loss.  Just hand wave it all away, and pretend it didn't happen.  I'm not so good at that. 

Oh, I also want to thank the show for turning its young JLA into some of the most mindless, brainless followers I've ever seen.  If they just went along with Chloe's plan?  They are as bad as she is.  Just stupider.

I was too distracted by Roulette's eye makeup to pay much attention to her performance. 

Lois mostly bugged me in this episode.  But since she was competing with Oliver and Chloe in the character that makes my eye twitch category, she gets a pass by default.  I didn't find the scene at the Kent house particularly charming, I didn't agree with her bitching at Clark (and perhaps its just a technicality, but Clark didn't lie to her face, but Whatever show, Whatever...).  I also don't buy into this Lois/Oliver friendship.  When did all this buddying up happen?  I simply cannot find myself invested in things that take place entirely in Offscreensville.  When exactly did these 2 have time to come up with a birthday tradition?  Was it after he left in Justice, and she didn't see him again until Siren?  Was it after Siren, when she didn't seem to have much direct contact with him until Toxic?  Was it after Toxic, when we saw the porch scene in Bride, where they were supposed to actually starting a true friendship?  Or, was it after that, which would've been less then a year in SV time?  So, really, the idea that they have this rich, deep friendship, and these birthday traditions is moronic.  But man, this show does seem to love associating Lois with alcohol.  I mean, don't get me wrong, she's young, and young people do socially drink.  Its just that it seems excessive when compared to any other character, except for Lex.  I just don't get it.

Tom looks great, as always.  I'm still loving the longer hair.  And its nice that he's still out there, saving people.  Though it would be nice if he could do that with a bit less destruction.  Was it necessary to wreck the womans car?  But, mostly, I thought this episode made Clark appear a bit clueless, and peripheral. And of course, any episode that has him embracing Oliver isn't doing much for his moral position. 

Join us next week, where yet another DC character is introduced strictly to service the character of Oliver.

Most Clark-centric season ever....MY ASS!



Comments

( 37 comments — Leave a comment )
me_ya_ri
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:25 am (UTC)
You know, I keep reading and writing SV but I stopped watching way, way, way back in S5. I've only seen isolated things since then. And I think I'm happier for it. Of course, I'm a die-hard Clexer so that's probably part of it. *laughs*

I think part of the reason I stopped watching was reactions just like yours to this episode. I too totally embraced the AU concept that Lex Luthor in SV was NOT Clark's ultimate enemy. I've got Lionel cast in that role in my head.

That doesn't change the fact that I get all curious about what they're doing on the show and so I read reviews like these and cherry pick the concepts I like for my stories. ^_~

Hopefully the twisting of what Clark is/should be won't continue too much longer. *sighs for the days when people actually backed him up on moral points on the show*
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:57 am (UTC)
Honestly, looking at the show now, it totally supports the POV that Lex is not Clark's ultimate enemy. In fact, compared to the "friends" he has now, Lex was a freaking saint! And you have no idea how weird that is for me to say that. LOL
me_ya_ri
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:28 am (UTC)
The show really has fucked over any hope Clark has of ever having real friends. I know, I know, in comics canon Superman was 'the only Kryptonian' and no one could really understand his pain but for heaven's sake he's always had FRIENDS! People who would kick his butt when he was wrong AND support him when he was right.

And he always had the strong moral sense of right and wrong. That's what defines both Clark Kent and Superman. A lot of people found that strong moral sense annoying--Superman sees things in black and white, no gray at all in many incarnations--but TPTB have rewritten that so completely that Clark as no moral core at all. It sucks, big time.

*grin* The show would be much improved by Lex coming back and pointing out to Clark in his inimitible fashion that he's getting completely screwed by all these so called friends. Not that I'm biased or anything. ;D
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:44 am (UTC)
I'm not a Superman aficianado, but I always thought he had real, true-blue friends. But not on SV. At least not anymore. Its tragically sad to me.

TPTB have made Clark very morally malleable to twist and shape him around their supporting characters in whatever way they want.

Heck, if Lex comes back, I am now totally on board with Clark just hand waving stuff away, and being OK with him. Whats one more? LOL
kissme_myfool
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:37 am (UTC)
Just want to give you perspective on my point of view. I love the friends I've made with Smallville and will continue to discuss till I get bored. I will continue to read articles/spoilers/etc just to see if I find a glimmer of hope...one day it might get better (better is subjective).

Also, I don't really comment on the episodes themselves. I don't watch really. Just Chloe scenes for the pretty.

As always, thanks! for the ST totals :)
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:59 am (UTC)
You're welcome, and thanks for the perspectives. I certainly understand wanting to continue on with friendships. I don't so much understand the going out of ones way to try and ruin it for other people still watching, and enjoying it. That just doesn't make much sense to me. Sorry.
tasabian
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:46 am (UTC)
I haven't watched the ep. yet but will watch, then read your review tomorrow.

But I can tell by your screen times that this will be a hard sell for me. *pouting Clark icon*
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:01 am (UTC)
Yeah, its a Clark-lite. So, never was going to be a favorite. But I liked Noir, and thats a Clark-lite episode really.

For me, its what this episode was about, and how they resolved it. I'll be interested to hear what you think since our perspectives tend to differ (but I love you muchly anyway!).
(Anonymous)
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:12 am (UTC)
Wow V. That's one fantastic review. I just watched the last two episodes over the weekend, sorry I did, and I have to say that I'm about to pack it in with Smallville. I just couldn't sit throught Roulette without rolling my eyes and laughing at everything. This really was an episode that screamed "TW is an executive producer now so he has very little time for acting". If you look at the totals for the season, it's certainly shaping up to be a season where TW will not dominate the screentime. I'm sure there will be other episodes down the pike where other characters will get the focus, much like Oliver got in Roulette.

Putting this episode aside for a second, after having watched 5 episodes, I still don't know what Clark's story is this year. I think that TPTB feel that if they include a 30 second scene with Clark blurring to save somebody, they've done their job for the week and Clark has a story. But IMO, Clark has one story. Fall in love with Lois this season. Oh, and I guess his second story is to sort of wander in and out of everyone else's storylines. That's pretty much it for Clark. I know that people may like the way that TW looks in that black suit, and that's fine, but I still don't see how Clark running around with a black suit on saving people makes a lick of sense. For years, we've seen him with the Superman colors and it really is funny how in one of the last seasons, TPTB decide to get rid of the Superman colors completely from Clark's wardrobe. Really, what kind of message are TPTB trying to send? That Clark's Batman? Maybe so, but something tells me that Batman would always be the focus of his show. Perhaps TPTB will introduce the Superman colors again at the end of the series as a way to show that Clark has progressed to the next level, pretending that years 1-8 never happened. That seems to be the way they operate anyway.

As far as Oliver goes, I think you've covered everything but we're in agreement that one of his problems, aside from killing people and shooting arrows at his friends, is excessive drinking, right? So in an episode that is supposed to redeem this horse's ass, don't you find it laughable that one of his final scenes involves getting blasted with Lois? You can't make it up. You just cannot make it up.

-M



jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:37 am (UTC)
Thanks M. Honestly, I debated whether I would post any review, because this episode just was so ridiculous and underwhelming, and just highlighted so many qualities of this show that I dislike intensely.

I think there's probably a very valid claim in TW not having as much screentime because he'd gotten more into production. I know how thats how it feels to me. And unless the spoilers are wildly misleading, I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I think Clark's story this year is mostly being Lois' love interest. He has other things going on, but thats his A plot. I don't have an objection to a Clois relationship, but I do have an objection to it being Clark's A plot.

Really, what kind of message are TPTB trying to send?

M, I no longer have any clue at all. I just know its not the message I was so hoping the show would send in its 9th, and possibly final, season.

So in an episode that is supposed to redeem this horse's ass, don't you find it laughable that one of his final scenes involves getting blasted with Lois? You can't make it up. You just cannot make it up.


LMAO. Exactly! There's just nothing that feels "redeemed" about Oliver to me. Yes, he's stopped moping, and being self-destructive. But I don't think he's changed at all.
shardsofblu
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:20 am (UTC)
Ahah, I was almost right in my 10-minute assumption for Clark's ST in this episode. :)

Honestly, all it would take for me to enjoy this episode instead of pulling my hair out is get Oliver in jail with/without Clark telling him to. And for the show to acknowledge that Chloe is NOT the good guy. I don't get that sense at all.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:41 am (UTC)
Hey, it was more then 10m! We should consider ourselves lucky ;)

I was never going to be totally OK with Oliver, but I would've been closer if he had some really meaningful dialogue, and if he had talked to Clark about what he did to him in Doomsday. And also if he'd been redeemed not by some stupid, twisted mindfuck, but because Oliver honestly saw the errors of his ways, and choose a different path.

There were ways to make this all more palatable. TPTB went for hooky gimmicks, and ripped off a movie, then inserted a scene where 2 snide, smug morally dubious people congratulated each other, and themselves, on what they did. You gotta love our Superman show, right?
tariel22
Oct. 27th, 2009 06:53 am (UTC)
You know, Valerie, when you rant, it's just glorious! I can't argue with your unassailable logic, and I love your wit and sarcasm. You already know I see things a little differently, but at the heart of it we agree that Oliver's story makes Clark look bad, Chloe's convoluted plot to "save" Oliver was a waste of an episode, and that Chloe is looking a lot like a bad guy right now.

Mostly I mourn for the episode that could have been. I know you didn't like Echo either, but I felt like it at least had the potential to set up an episode where Clark is the one to help Oliver resolve to reform, accept responsibility for his past actions, and then find a way to be a force for good again. And I still don't understand why TPTB have no interest in telling that story.

I did enjoy Clark in this episode, what we saw of him.

Thanks for the screentime minutes. As a numbers person, they always fascinate me and give me additional insight into the episode. I know compiling them takes a lot of time and effort, and I appreciate it, truly.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 01:36 pm (UTC)
LOL, Thanks! I actually thought I held back a bit on a full-out rant. Just imagine, it could've been worse *shudders*

I mourn a lot for episodes that could've been. And in fact, for a show that could've been. I guess its like having a child that has all this potential, but decides they don't want to do anything more then flip burgers at McDonalds. You still love them, and you'd stil do anything for them, but you mourn for the doctor they could've been.

SV is a burger flipper.

I often wonder why TPTB don't have more interest in telling Clark's story, yet are often quoted as saying how many more stories they have to tell. Just obviously not stories for Clark.

You know, I've been doing the screentime totals for 3 years now. And I've never had so many objections to them as I've had this year. Its as if people don't like what they are illuminating, so instead they decided to attack their significance. Hell, I never told anyone they had to consider it significant. But numbers are numbers. They don't lie. And the fact remains that out of 5 episodes, Clark's numbers have only led twice. Facts is facts.
jlvsclrk
Oct. 27th, 2009 08:44 am (UTC)
I just thought this episode was a complete waste - utterly appalling. I can't get over how many people on Kryptonsite are happy, genuinely happy, to see Oliver back and think he's done his penance and of course Chloe was right because he thanked her. Idiots. But the real problem is that I'm quite convinced that's the way the showrunners WANT us to feel. Clark in their minds really is a boring character because he won't "do what it takes."

Yuk, just yuk.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 01:45 pm (UTC)
I can't get over how many people on Kryptonsite are happy, genuinely happy, to see Oliver back and think he's done his penance and of course Chloe was right because he thanked her. Idiots.

Pretty much.

But it doesn't surprise me.

And like you, I also think this is where the showrunners are coming from. Like I said, how can anyone dispute that is what Doomsday taught us? Chloe wasn't held accountable, even though she hid Davis, lied to people, and completely undermined Clark. Oliver wasn't held responsible, even though he was all "Murder!Murder!Murder!" (even though no one knew how to accomplish that), and even though he shot Clark in the back, and by all rights should've been killed, and gotten Chloe, Dinah and Bart killed. No, Clark was held responisble. Clark! Who tried to banish Davis to the Phantom Zone, who tried to come up with a viable solution that saved Davis' life. That Clark! And we all hoped some apologies were coming, but the only ones that came were from Clark to Oliver and Chloe.

Well, I learned my lesson. And what I learned is that when you see Chloe doing this kind of crap? The show will justify it. And when Chloe and Oliver smugly discuss how Clark won't do what needs to be done? Thats precisely what the show means.

I'm not saying the show couldn't surprise us. I just think expecting it is setting ones self up for disappointment. No thanks.
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 01:48 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry I didn't respond to others comments on this episode. By the time I saw it, days had gone by, and I didn't like the ep enough to go back and catch up. I did like your commments though :)

TPTB have no clue do they? Really, they just don't seem to care how Chloe or Ollie look or how this reflects upon and affects Clark.

Not at all! I shouldn't be surprised, but they seem to be taking it down another level.

I think Chloe is going to skate on all this. I said that last year with the Davis stuff, and people disagreed with me, but I was right. I think I'll be right again here.
(Anonymous)
Oct. 27th, 2009 12:06 pm (UTC)
Well: I don't know where to start! I can't pretend I had high expectations for this episode but I hadn't expected it to be so bad either.I understand that a Oliver-plot-development is necessary and to be honest I don't envy the writer's position: it's a pretty tricky situation.But I don't like the way they're playing it out.Dito on your comments on that!I have the feeling that we missed some episodes down the line:we're beeing told things that were "supposed" to have happenned(early in the season was Lois and the blur and now Lois and Oliver budding) and that damages the consitency of the plot.Tom is always a sight for sore eyes but lately I don't quite get it how he's playing CK.He seems a bit "lost". That's why I would love to hear his POV on this season.I know the writers are "streching it" to go up to S10 but "Watch out people if you strech it too hard it will break".As far as the Clark/Lois thing: well it's a bit embarassing/ painful to watch it really. I know "they 're taking it slow" and I always keep in mind Tom's interview to TVGuide.But it's ironic that after 70 years of mythos it's the first time that they have to go to all this trouble to make Clark-and-Lois a "plausible" couple.And so far they're not succeeding in it.The movie scene was ackward to say the least. I got bored half-way through it.I know, I'm a terrible fan. But in my defense I have to say I'm really making an effort people, but so far ...nothing!I read all your comments attentively and I try to see what most of you seem to see and I think we're not watching the same show. Ever since Savior that I've been reading "this is the Clois season", "oh! the amazing sexual tension", "love is definitely in the air for these two". And I scratch my head and go "say what?" I saw more sexual tension between Lois and John Corben in their brief interaction. I don't know.Tom is a man whon Know's HOW TO BE A MAN, ya know what I mean! but with his portrayl of CK towards Lois I don't see it.One thing is what was supposed to be there ,another thing is what is ACTUALLY there(again it resonate Tom's words in the interview).And believe me I Rewind and FFward every frame!!!Maybe next epi. will be better!*wishful thinking*
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 01:58 pm (UTC)
I wasn't expecting much of this ep either, but I didn't expect it to be this silly, and I didn't expect Oliver's "redemption" to be so utterly unconvincing.

I haven't had any issues with Tom's performance. There wasnt much for him to do in this one. I don't always think the scripts are giving him much to work with.

As for romantic chemistry between characters, thats always so subjective. And if it isn't there for you, it just isn't there. I still scratch my head over things like the "sizzling chemistry between Lex and Chloe" which I never saw even an inkling of. And as many people tell me how great ED and JH are together, I just don't see it. Ditto JH and CF, who have anti-chemistry to me. But I do think TW and ED are fine together. I think my biggest issue with the Clois stuff right now is how heavy-handed it is.

It would always be great to get Tom's perspective on things, but I guess becoming a producer hasn't really changed his perspective on giving interviews. I had hoped it would, but alas...
siobhan_w
Oct. 27th, 2009 01:03 pm (UTC)
Now, personally, I think anyone that devises this sort of sick, twisted mindfuck, and finds a way to justify it to themselves that its for a good cause, is one dangerous, twisted individual. And yes, I think thats pretty much what Chloe is now

Generally speaking I liked the episode even if it was Clark-lite and I didn't mind the Oliver focus because he is pretty and I am shallow but...I do agree with you about Chloe and was actually really bothered by what she did, how she justified it to herself and the fact that nobody (either the other characters or the show itself) seems to have had an issue with it. It was devious, manipulative and downright dangerous and the worst part is that she seems to feel that her actions were justified as long as things worked out in the end.

Girlfriend is walking a dangerous road and good intentions do not make playing with other peoples lives OK.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:08 pm (UTC)
Generally speaking I liked the episode even if it was Clark-lite and I didn't mind the Oliver focus because he is pretty and I am shallow but...

Hey, nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think you've got the right idea. Thats definitely the way to go with SV.

To me, Chloe has gotten so smug, and condescending, and so full of herself. I really thought I might be turning around on her after last season, but Nope! I was wrong.
agentobrian
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:02 pm (UTC)
Average screentime:

Clark- 17m, 43s
Chloe- 7m, 10s
Lois- 15m, 15s
Oliver- 14m, 2s
Tess- 5m, 50s
Zod- 5m, 20s

I don't know if it's because I am such a huge Chloe fan, or I'm used to seeing things like what she did, but her actions didn't bother me at all in this episode.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 02:15 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the averages. :)

I think its easier to empathize with Chloe if you are coming at the show from her perspective. But I come at the show from Clark's perspective. And obviously those 2 perspectives are radically different at this point.
goodvibe
Oct. 27th, 2009 03:55 pm (UTC)
//And what the hell was Oliver doing up on that building? He doesn't have super hearing, so he can't hear a call for help. And even if he could, how long is it going to take him to get down?//

LMAO! Now I have this hilarious (and pathetic) visual in my head of an Oliver desperately climbing up and down, just to 'look cool.'

Don't really have much else to say because you said it all and I agree with every single word. Eerily so, heh.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 04:27 pm (UTC)
LOL. Thats hilarious. It would be even funnier if we saw Clark hearing a call for help, the zipping off, while Oliver ran for the elevator. Then we could show Clark catching the bad guy, and saving someone, and flash back to Oliver still waiting for the elevator.

Now, *that* would've been EPIC!
goodvibe
Oct. 28th, 2009 05:22 pm (UTC)
Can we petition someone to make this scene happen?

---

No, just us then?

Dammit.
jeannev
Oct. 28th, 2009 05:44 pm (UTC)
HeeHeeHee...
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 04:32 pm (UTC)
Re: part I
I loved so much of your response. So Much!

And yes, that scene between Oliver and Chloe was very much the reason that I don't believe Oliver has changed at all. Note to show, if I'm supposed to believe that someone is back on the side of the angels, they shouldn't be shown as smugly scoffing at Clark. But then again, I don't see the SV writers as getting that point at all.

I loved that you compared what Chloe did to what Oliver did in Sneeze, and what Lex did in Mortal. I've never been a Lex-is-a-misunderstood woobie fan, but looking at the show now, and using hindsight, Lex really did a raw deal here.

There was nothing Clark said, or did, that inspired Oliver to be a better person. I can't think of a bigger mistake to make in this whole arc.
(Deleted comment)
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 04:37 pm (UTC)
Re: part II
I think the whole set-up of the farm scene had problems. From Lois just taking over Clark's house, from Clark being distracted by his heroics, from Lois being there because she was bothered by Oliver. I don't know. I just got nothing from it at all.

I think I didn't see Clark as lying because he was rather non-commital on his answer to Lois. And maybe that could still be considered a lie by omission.

But bottom line, I thought the whole scene just didn't need to happen. It doesn't really serve any purpose, except to have another of these "Oh Clark, you've disappointed me greatly" scenes. You could just as easily have had Lois go over to the office alone, and find the contrived tape of the suicide attempt. You could've kept Clark out of it completely, and it wouldn't have impacted the episode at all. Well, check that, it would've had one less scene that made my eye twitch. LOL
canadabear
Oct. 27th, 2009 07:10 pm (UTC)
For some strange, odd reason, I can't say I'm surprised you feel this way at all!
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 07:27 pm (UTC)
Hmmm, So I'm not subtle, eh? ;)

(Anonymous)
Oct. 27th, 2009 08:44 pm (UTC)
You're so right that the only person that gets called out on his shit is Lex. Lex did way more for Clark than Oliver ever did but he ended his friendship with him but Oliver's done worse to him. I have no problem with characters having having different morals than Clark, but he should be looked up to for having such strong morals, not mocked like he was at the coffee scene.
jeannev
Oct. 27th, 2009 08:48 pm (UTC)
In retrospect, and given the people that Clark currently surrounds himself with, then I do see a disconnect with how things went down with him and Lex. Maybe they are trying to say he's more mature now, and deals with people differently. Or, something like that.

I've often thought that SV's writers found the good guys boring, so they like to muck them up, and make them as morally ambigious as possible.
tasabian
Oct. 28th, 2009 02:34 am (UTC)
Egads, this was dumb. And it wasn't even dumb and pretty. When they used this same premise for Glover in Mercy, at least he got to look hot in a tank top. Poor Justin just looked unkempt.

I mean, Come On! Oliver didn't shoot some hot chick who messed with him in the back, and then he was going to help her out of a fire, and that means he's a hero and not a murderer anymore?
SV has always had ethics trouble but the idea that not murdering someone absolves you of murdering someone else is murkier morally than the Sopranos.

And worst of all, Clark really had nothing to do with his redemption, or...well, anything. Clark was a bystander. We could've used this whole thing as a way to show how Clark can be an example of the people around him, and light to lead someone out of the darkness. But Nah! In fact, Oliver's little meeting with Chloe makes it fairly clear to me that he still doesn't really respect Clark, or believe in him.
That was a terrible ending. I would respect the show and the character so much more if Oliver's final scene had been turning himself into the police. But the attitude of the show (and at K-site) is that Oliver is a hero because he is a hero. Being defined as such is enough; his actual actions are irrelevant. It's the same logic that says being sorry for something is the same as paying for your crimes. It isn't.
jeannev
Oct. 28th, 2009 03:00 am (UTC)
Until you brought up Mercy, I hadn't thought of the comparison. But Wow, now that I think about it...

Only there, of course, setting up that whole elaborate game that put an innocent person at risk was considered a "bad thing". Now? Not so much.

I mean, I do get that Oliver was never going to go to jail, or even turn himself in. But dammit, there was a better way to do with this. They could've made him seem honestly, and truly remorseful. There were ways to do a redemption arc where you could've believed that Oliver would give anything to take back what he did. Not just to Lex, but to Clark. I think JH could've carried those dramatics. Instead this did this STUPID dog and pony show that didn't sell a redemption arc at all. Not at all! And to top it off, they throw in a scene of Oliver and Chloe being smug bitches about Clark. Really??

Like I said, I give it just a few eps before Oliver is back to being exactly who he was. And I don't mean that in a good way.

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